Author Topic: Motorcycle tire rule change  (Read 142275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John Noonan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3606
  • 306 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #195 on: May 27, 2010, 12:47:25 PM »
Fred,

Good info and pricing.. :cheers:

Offline gixxerfixxer

  • New folks
  • Posts: 26
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #196 on: May 27, 2010, 01:21:06 PM »
Thanks I did know they were kind of soft as per the website they are a med compound

http://www.rippracing.com/bt003r.html


Here is info on the BT-003 I would replace them with with a type 2 compound

I choose the type 3 compound for the Texas Mile for traction

Offline sheribuchta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #197 on: May 27, 2010, 02:11:45 PM »
hell-o     i just left modesto yamaha--ducati  ( one of my sponsors ) and i looked at their race tires to be specific the  bt 003  it is a zr w(185 mph) rated tire which the way i read the rules wont be allowed over 200 mph  willie buchta
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 02:17:00 PM by sheribuchta »

Offline John Noonan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3606
  • 306 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #198 on: May 27, 2010, 02:21:54 PM »
hell-o     i just left modesto yamaha--ducati  ( one of my sponsors ) and i looked at their race tires to be specific the  bt 003  it is a zr w(185 mph) rated tire which the way i read the rules wont be allowed over 200 mph  willie buchta

Willie,

If the tire manufacturer states it is a race tire and also has DOT or ZR rating it will be legal...NO STREET TIRES Period if the record is over 200 mph.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13169
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #199 on: May 27, 2010, 03:40:35 PM »
Okay -- I've held my typing fingers for a while, but now that I've found tires...

This morning I called Nate Jones.  I got 4 sets -- 2 sets for each of the two bikes.  They're Michelin race slicks.  Nate didn't ask much at all about what I wanted - but rather told me what he felt would work for our bikes.  Since Nate is a tire professional -- so far as to visit his customers at Bonneville to check on how the tires he supplied are working -- I didn't question his choice of slick or the compound (which is pretty hard, sorta midway between medium and hard).  He mentioned that he'll be cutting a circumferential groove on the front - to give a bit more steering control than a pure slick might have.  NO, I don't have type of model numbers -- sorry.

He told me the prices - which include not just the tire but also his "shaping" (i.e. sort of shaving and also setting the contour so the tire, at speed, will have the best contact patch) and shipping.  I don't have the exact price total yet -- but it looks like it'll be right in the $500/set neighborhood (including S & H and so on).  Two sets for each bike -- and we've got two rear wheels for each, so can be ready for darn near anything when we're at Bville this summer.

I've since emailed some of the M/C committee folks to report on what I've got - to make sure that these tires will be accepted when the bikes are in tech. 

Nate Jones Cowboy Tire -- is the name of the company.  Page 196 of the '10 rulebook.  562 597 3369.  Tell him you got the reference to him through this site -- maybe he'll buy an ad or two!

Thanks, all.  Get back to your other stuff now.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline John Noonan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3606
  • 306 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #200 on: May 27, 2010, 04:09:57 PM »
Slim,

Good info and Nate is a good source for tires and shaving/profiling them as well.

Your tires will be legal under the new rules as a slick is not a street tire and would fall right in to the racing tire category.

AZ bridgestone.com will sell the tires (matched set) for $ 349.00 plus shipping for the race tires, the model is 

BT003 DOT Race Tire 180/55 Type 2 (Hard) 
List Price: $270.00
Our Price: $208.00
You Save $62.00!   
 

- Incorporates new profile designed from latest MotoGP tire development
- Increased stability and traction
- Improved grip consistency
- DOT approved for Super Sport classes

Those are the tires I will be using on a bike once the new rule is effective in August.

Might even find better pricing elsewhere..?


John
 


 

Offline fredvance

  • FVANCE
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
    • Vance and Forstall Racing
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #201 on: May 27, 2010, 05:06:22 PM »
Willie, as previously stated in this thread, Tom Evans said the BT-003 is legal.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:38:51 PM by fredvance »
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline sheribuchta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #202 on: May 27, 2010, 05:37:16 PM »
fred and john  you are both correct                                    willie buchta
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:26:35 PM by sheribuchta »

Offline fredvance

  • FVANCE
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
    • Vance and Forstall Racing
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #203 on: May 27, 2010, 06:41:58 PM »
It happens, once and awhile. :roll: :cheers:

  Fred
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline bak189

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #204 on: May 28, 2010, 12:12:31 AM »
Would you believe it took 200 posts, and lot of hurt feelings before some of the m/c "advisory" members
posted their tires of choice......I am certain they knew all along what would be legal as they had
"tons of information" as has been noted.  And these are the same so called "racers" who are looking after our safety.........This whole tire thing has been mishandled from the start......but I have "no dog in this fight" as has been pointed out to me several times but it certainly is very disappointhing to me that we have people like that calling the shots in our sport.
Question authority.....always

Offline joea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #205 on: May 28, 2010, 09:53:38 AM »
 I AM PROBABLY THE BIGGEST PROPONENT OF RUNNING ZR RADIALS.......

I LIKE WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND EXPERIENCED, BUT ALSO RESPECT WHAT OTHERS
LIKE VAN HAVE BEEN TOLD AND SHOWN....

...THE M/C ADVISORY FOLKS LIKE JOHN N. OFFERED DISCOURSE WHEN
ASKED TO THE SANCTIONING BODY AS PART OF THE PROCESS....OF THE SANCTIONING BODY (SCTA) WHO IS LOOKING OUT FOR OUR SAFETY IN A MANNER UTILIZING OVER 60 YRS OF EXPERIENCE IN DOING SO.....


MANY CAME ON HERE CLAIMING SOME CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT SCTA WANTING
BIKES OUT.......VAN BUTLER AND TOM EVANS ARE PROBABLY THE TWO MOST PRO MOTORCYCLE
ORIENTED ENTHUSIASTS OUT THERE.......DONATING THEIR TIME AND EFFORTS FOR US, WHICH
INCLUDES VAN'S WIFE'S ASPIRATIONS DREAMS AND SAFETY ALSO......

THE SCTA PUT OUT GUIDELINES FOR NEW TIRE RULES.....THIS ALLOWS FOLKS TO DEVELOP THEIR
PROGRAM AS THEY SEE FIT.......NOT MANDATING SPECIFIC TIRE X FROM MANUF. X......

ITS NOT THERE JOB OR INTEREST TO TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW TO BUILD YOUR BIKES....

HECK JOHN N. AND OTHERS FROM THE M/C COMMITTEE ARE LEARNING AS WELL WITH THE DISCOURSE,
AND DONT KNOW ALL THE TIRE POSSIBILITIES.......

WHY SHOULD IT BE A PERSONS RIGHT TO RUN TIRES NOT APPROVED AND NOT RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER
FOR SPEEDS PEOPLE WANT TO RUN.....AT AN EVENT RUN UNDER THE HOSPICES OF AN ORGANIZATION WHO TAKES
MUCH RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE PARTICIPANTS..?.....

IT ALSO SHOULD BE KNOWN, THAT I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH BUB, FOR OVER 3 MONTHS, TO OBTAIN
A TIRE RULE CLARIFICATION FOR THIS YEAR.....I KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN ALLOWED IN PAST, BUT DIDNT WANT
TO ASSUME THE SAME FOR THIS YEAR.....

IT STARTED WITH """"We recommend that you should have appropriately rated tires for your speeds, but we do not mandate the requirement. The tire selection is the sole responsibility of the rider.
FIM does say that using underrated tyres MAY be excluded from competition."""

FOLLOWED BY   """""That being said, we would undoubtedly prohibit someone going 250 mph on a low rated tire!""""""""

and i asked if a zr radial rated for 186 was considered low rated for 230..240..250..265 +  etc

FOLLOWED BY   """I fowarded this to our FIM and AMA tech inspector"""

FOLLOWED BY ''''Our tech inspector is deferring any tire rulings/clarifications to the sanctioning bodies""

AFTER 2 MONTHS......FOLLOWED BY THE TECH INSPECTOR WHO IS VERY CORDIAL/PROFESSIONAL KEEPING
ME INFORMED....THAT NOTHING HAS BEEN CLARIFIED YET....

FOLLOWED BY....FURTHER DISCOURSE......

IM GUESSING BUB WILL RUN SIMILARLY TO BEFORE, BUT WANTED TO SHOW THAT AS OF TODAY AND 3 MONTHS
DISCOURSE, THAT EVEN BUB HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GIVE A CLARIFICATION TO TIRE RULES......

AS USUAL, I APPLAUD BOTH ORGANIZATIONS WHO DO WHAT THEY DO FOR US....

DELVENE AT BUB, AND THEIR TECH GURU DREW ARE VERY CORDIAL AND EXCITED MOTORCYCLE ENTHUSIASTS
AS WELL DOING THE BEST THEY KNOW HOW AS WELL....

I HATE TO SEE FOLKS THROWING STONES AT THE DEDICATION AND PASSION OF THE SCTA AND ITS
PERSONNEL......

WE CAN DISAGREE......BUT THE SOLE VIGILANCE/DILEGENCE IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS IS OUR
WELL BEING........THE COHONES TO BE AS PRO-ACTIVE AS POSSIBLE IS COMMEDABLE.....WHY WAIT
FOR SOMETHING MORE CATASTROPHIC TO THEN MAKE CHANGES...

PERHAPS THE NEW DECISION WILL REVEAL THAT RACE RADIALS PERFORM NO BETTER THAN ZR STREET
RADIALS...PERHAPS DEVELOPMENT OF REAL LSR TIRES,(AS THE CAR GUYS HAVE BEEN MANDATED TO RUN
FOR CENTURIES)...WILL COME ABOUT....

THE SCTA AND MANY RACERS ARE PROCEEDING WITH CAUTION....LETS SEE WHAT COMES ABOUT AND WORK
TOGETHER, MORE DATA WILL BE GATHERED....AND CHANGES MADE ACCORDINGLY....
 



Offline WildBro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #206 on: May 28, 2010, 10:16:00 AM »
So what tires are you going to run Joe?  Do you have to go to LSR tires based on last years speed?

Bill
aka: Tenno Celeritas

Offline VeeTwin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #207 on: May 28, 2010, 10:23:02 AM »
Rule #1 of management: to get buy-in, you involve people in the decision process.

When you go through the process in secret and behind closed doors, of course people are going to question it.

Why is the SCTA so determined to lock the membership out of the process? We see this over and over.

This rule may or may not be a good thing, I don't know. I want to be safe just like everyone else. The only thing I know for sure is that they went about it very, very poorly.

Offline fredvance

  • FVANCE
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
    • Vance and Forstall Racing
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #208 on: May 28, 2010, 10:36:07 AM »
Joe, thanks so much for sharing your views and experiences. I notice that you did not did criticize Bub, AMA, or FIM, and I applaud you for that. The person/persons who seem to be most critical of SCTA dont even run SCTA. They seem to take every opportunity to attack and criticize SCTA. Why is that?
     I want to thank Tom Evans and Van Butler for their quick responce to all our questions. In a weeks time I beleive that the question of what tire is legal has pretty much been laid to rest. If you dont know then contact them with a question  about a specific tire. It is not their job to make recomendations, it is their job to to say yea or nay about a specific tire. I directed most of my questions to Tom and he was very quick in his responce.
     So get your new tires and lets go raceing.

  Fred
WORLDS FASTEST PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE 213.470
Vance&Forstall Racing
WOS 2011 235+MPH
Engine by Knecum, Tuned by Johnny Cheese.
Sponsers Catalyst Composites, Johnny Cheese Perf, Knecum Racing Engines, Murray Headers, Carpenter Racing

Offline dw230

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3168
Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #209 on: May 28, 2010, 11:10:47 AM »
Vee Twin,

"Rule #1 of management: to get buy-in, you involve people in the decision process.

When you go through the process in secret and behind closed doors, of course people are going to question it."

I agree with your rule #1. What happens if you involve 100+ people in the decision process? The most efficient way to accomplish something like this is to form a committee of experienced/involved competitors and solicit opinion. A smaller group of, say 11, should give a rounded opinion of expertise. If a process like this were started two months ago involving the 100 where would we be now?

Utilizing all participants is not at all practical.

DW

White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth