SCTA Meeting minutes online?

[JackD]

Martyrs are not considered saints.
I can cite multiple cases where something was misrepresented to the board, rulebook, and the membership. Only the publication here put the light on it and even that resulted in the MC tech committee chair tried to tell a story that was not true about the origin. Documentation here prevented the misrepresentation that might have occur ed in a one on one communication. If you know more people are liable to read a question you are not only going think about it harder but the answer will have a better chance of being correct.
A lot of good information is passed along here and it is better when you believe more people are looking at it because it has to stand that test.
"You can fool some of the people(well you know how it goes)"
That might sound a little harsh but it is really soft when compared to how it might be said.  
Remember when you decide how you feel about it that thousands of drilled holes are in the balance and might be homeless if you insist.
Don't spend a lot of time worried about this because if you spread yourself to thin, the quality will suffer.

[ddahlgren]

I am not sure if there is a length limit to a post but we might just find out.
 
First it is the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) that happens to be a group of clubs in a specific geographical location and not a national organization. Second it is run by the members for their enjoyment and or amusement you pick which one you think is appropriate. They also have a separate organization run by the SCTA members called Bonneville Nationals Inc.(BNI). SCTA runs a series of local events during the year. BNI runs 2 events during the year that are more national in scope and not really local to the SCTA as the primary location at El Mirage. These from what I can see are run by the same group of people, SCTA though by possibly different members but that is really not important, in order to accomplish 2 things that are obvious to me. The first is to have a longer racing surface at a place that has been regarded the 'mecca of speed' for generations. the second is to help raise some money to offset the costs for the local club events. This is important to note as in order to race at a BNI event you need to be a BNI member and pay your entry fee. You are not obligated beyond that point. In order to race at El Mirage you need to be a member of a car club affiliated with SCTA and participate at the events even if you are not personally racing a car or bike there. So your obligations are more involved than at a BNI event. There is nothing wrong for a local club to have a larger than normal event with an event committee (BNI) in order to raise funds for the club. It is more fun than passing the hat at meetings and standing on street corners with a tin cup.

An analogy, every story needs one. I have a friend that is a member of a local golf club,'The Mystic River Divits', yes i made that name up to protect the innocent. They have monthly meetings and tournaments for the benefit of the members to have some fun playing against each other and compare improvements in ability at their local golf course. they also have an annual ball, Christmas party and a few other social gatherings for the members and families to enjoy. To offset these costs for the monthly tournaments and selected get togethers they have a couple of open  events at a world class course for anyone to play. All you have to do is pay your fees and go play. You are not obligated to do anything other than have a good time, follow the rules and go home. Some of the players at the open tournament are very active in the sport and always working on new innovations to improve their game so are always interested in what is new going on at the Divits meetings so they know where they stand for the next year's open events and rightly so as it involves considerable travel and expense. There is pending discussion as i type this about a laser guided putter LOL..

I think the analogy fits pretty well to be honest. In my humble opinion what needs to be accomplished is not the day to day working of a local club whether it be the Divits or the SCTA. Information from the 'event committee' is what the participants at the open events need in order to know what is going on and make decisions accordingly. It also might be good to remember the relationship though rocky at times is rather symbiotic. The local club benefits from the cash infusion of the open event and players that are not local or members of a club get to play. Both benefit from each other and both add value to the overall sport. Communications at both ends is important as is the the common goal to have a successful and enjoyable open event that is a financial success to the local club as well as a rewarding experience for the player that travels from far away to participate in the event. One group needs to understand that the participants that travel great distances spend considerable time and effort to attend. The other group needs to understand that the those that host the event go thorough considerable time and effort to put it on. Both groups opinions have merit and both have a vested interest in the final outcome of the events.

Does anyone need some copies of the Mystic River Divits meets for those golfers interested in attending the open tournament. You can read all about how someone has a problem at a local tournament and the plans for the annual ball, or might you be better served by just getting some timely information on the rules for the open event and possibly get some timely responses if you have some concerns. If you are putting on the event that is the fundraiser how important is it to your group to have a financial success with a good turn out and a minimum of misunderstandings or problems.

The last issue is the timely response. Everyone has a different definition of one might be. Every event has a rulebook and ought to be the first place to look. If it is not clear there it ought to be a phone call or e-mail for an interpretation of what the rule means. If the question is really obscure in might have to come up at a meeting for further discussion so the local clubs are involved with their input as well. So the answer is not always a call away. On the other hand the rule book comes out within about 6 months before the event at best and sometimes a lot closer. That causes issues of complying when the equipment takes a very long time to prepare in some cases and a new rule 4 months before an event might mean not attending for some. A solution might be the event rule makers have an open discussion at one of the open events that questions and suggestions are fielded by everyone. It does not have to be during the actual event as they are not run in the dark. The questions and thoughts might be written in advance so that any research that has to be done on either side be prepared so the discussion is useful as well. i would think a question submitted a month in advance ought to be long enough for anyone to find the answers and if further clarification is needed to discuss it at the meeting for everyone. Things discussed there ought to be binding as well so everyone has a chance in advance to know the score rather than months and might only be a rule for the open event. It is a thought at least and i am sure i would like to see it happen.

If you care who the new president is of a local group is maybe move there and participate. if you care about rules at an open event possibly work to change the way rules are made or discussed for the open event. If you care about attendance at the open event maybe care about those who come with an open checkbook. We all need cooperation from each other for this venue to remain open and fun.

Dave

[Glen]

Dave well said.
glen

[Bob Drury]

Wow, J.D., you seem a little touchy this morning.  Try some Metamusel. Maybe then you can get ahold of your true feelings.  If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.  Seriously, this forum is provided for those of us who like to not accept the status quo and disscuss the what ifs and what nots.  That does not mean we or you are correct in our opinions or beliefs, but it does present as a forum our right to think outloud, and provide for legitimate disscussion of topics relating to our sport.  No one, least of all me, discounts the endless, tireless efforts put in by the volunteer members of SCTA in making this all possible, and why J.D., you have chosen yourself as a personal Martyr is beyond me.  There are lots of ideas to be bounced arround, some good, some bad, but all in all I still maintain a little more racer input can only help.

[Pat Kinne / Salt201]

J.D.'s post seems to say that the SCTA/BNI workers are not appreciated.  I have never seen anything but praise for the people who work so hard to put on Speed Week.  We are all aware that without these guys there would be no race.  Some of us by either geography or family or work obligations are not able to put in the time to pre-work an event.  This does not make us bad people.

   The point that has been missed or glossed over is the fact that racers from around this country that pay their BNI DUES and BNI ENTRY FEES are in effect paying for the SCTA El Mirage Events (as acknowledged in a prior posting).  All it appears they would like is some input on the rules before they are written in stone and a bit of incite on what is going on with their "Club" (BNI).

    The posting of the SCTA Minutes will I am sure for a time bring nit picking and second guessing along with the usual less than bright questions (think Speed Week drivers meetings).  After awhile this will disappear and two-way dialog will take its place.  We have good people putting in a great deal of time running SCTA/BNI at this point and it can only get better.

[dwarner]

This may come as a surprise to most but, pending rules are not discussed at SCTA Board meetings and will not be in the minutes.

There is a report given by the head car tech and head motorcycle tech. This report runs the gamit from "nothing to report" to "so 'n' so is building a car/bike and would like some advice. I sent him to the committee chairperson"

By the time the rules meeting is scheduled I have sent the board members, committee chairpersons and club presidents the agenda for the upcoming meeting. This is going out this week.

What you will get from the minutes is how many new cones will be purchased along with how many feet of yellow caution tape. Doesn't blow my skirt up, how about you?

[Bob Drury]

Dan, you are of course correct.  The bottom line is any real "dirt" , if there even is any, should and would be discussed by the "E" or Executive board in private, if proper rules and regulations are followed.  Salt's(God, how I hate these pseudonames) post pretty much sums up what I, and I think most others on this forum are looking for.  No one is trying to start a witch hunt, nor do I believe those who want financial disclosure ( I am not one of them) are suggesting any past or currrent impropriaties.  We just need to bridge that "us and them" mentality.  Once again, we all thank you Dan for visiting this site, and sharing .  The same goes for Tom, J.D., and all the members of SCTA.  And to J.D., I offer my personal appologies if I offended you with my "head in the sand" comment, it was meant more in jest than malice.  Now can I have my timing tag, Please?

[landracing]

What you will get from the minutes is how many new cones will be purchased along with how many feet of yellow caution tape. Doesn't blow my skirt up, how about you?

Wow dan, thats all thats reported at the meeting minutes? Well then what is the big issue on why It cant be posted??? Information like that can't hurt anything, and it will give some people something to read....

Dan I love ya man, I appreciate you taking the time to come here and play, When I see you next I will have an umbrella shaded beer cooler with beer included to pay my respects to you...

Jon

[joea]

anyone else, want to run and hold their ears
and eyes closed, when the discussion is out
of their control??

thats tooo freakin baaaad when ya gotta run
and cry when discourse doesnt suit ya........

geeeez.........thats what makes this country great...

lsr is so much better due to folks like JD and Dan
and so many others..........we truly respect all the
volunteers and their efforts...........

I sure as hell dont want to see JD remove himself as
a resource to the lsr community.........banter and discourse
is good even when ya dont see eye to eye.........(much of the
most meaningful occurs during these times)

but just as it is human nature to keep tweaking our
vehicles for more performance.............the same applies
to lsr politics........

this era of internet and more global information sharing to me is akin
to the proliferation of electronics and engine management........

some embrace it and use it to work smarter..more efficient...
others shun it and feel threatened by it...........

[desotoman]

This site has 510 registered users. Only 69 took the time to vote, even though Jon sent out an email telling everyone it was very important. 30 or less individuals took the time to post on this subject.(I might be wrong but very close).

I am drawing a conclusion that not many people care about posting the minutes. With only 49 who voted yes, that is less than 10% of those registered on this board.

I think it is time to let this rest. I know I am. Good night all.  Tom

[JackD]

The percent of participation is 1 factor. The percent of yes and no is just about what is represented by the level of membership. With over 2000 views it shows some interest.
The arguments for and against are few and often are repeated.
The fear factor is the loudest and the threats the lamest.
The information is public and only the format is the question.
I believe the answer is that it should be the available to everyone in the form that best serves the sport.
Credibility includes everyone running to the same standard. How would you expect the other racing groups to measure one against the other without a central place to share ideas and results ?

[joea]

yer right, when over 70% of those folks who care...
vote a certain way, ya oughta discount it and move on...........



LETS TALLY THE FREAKIN NUMBER OF VIEWS......and make
some reasonable deductions.........

desoto, I like ya.........just fueling the fire........cuz there is
obviously a fire.........we here in south dakota can see the smoke....
or is that smog down there...?

Joe

[Dynoroom]

.........we here in south dakota can see the smoke....
or is that smog down there...?

Joe

Hey Joe, what country is S. Dakota in?
I enjoy the site, even if it is your brothers!!

[pookie]

I would like to vote yes on the posting of the SCTA  meetings minutes

[desotoman]

LETS TALLY THE FREAKIN NUMBER OF VIEWS......and make
some reasonable deductions.........

just fueling the fire........

Joe

Joe,
   Views are just that, Views. They don't really mean anything, and are very misleading. One person could have viewed that thread 100 times. I know I probably did because it was an interest to me. If the 30 posters were as interested as I was, and viewed it as many times as I did, there is your total number of views. I am not saying that is what happened, but it is very possible seeing the total number of people that voted. That to me Joe is a reasonable deduction.

   As far as I am concerned the fire is out. Must be smog you are seeing.  Regards, Tom