SCTA Meeting minutes online?

[JohnR]

1. To encourage the distribution of information via the club reps and presidents in the form of member participation at the meetings.

I totally agree

2. The minutes do not reflect all of the discussion that takes place at the meetings. The reps "fill in the gaps" as to how and why decisions were made.

I agree that the meetings are not a total record of the discussion but they do hit all the high points of the topics covered.

3. While the minutes document the decisions made, they can easily be taken out of context or mis- interpreted.

Yes, as can everything in life.

4. The association runs on strictly volunteerism. Responding to constant pot shots from non members who do not participate in the process or contribute to the process just adds to the load on those volunteer officers.

I agree totally. But why not post them in a members only area?

5. All clubs have at least one officer that is computer literate and able. The minutes are electronically published and can be forwarded electronically via the club.

Yes, but you are saying that you dont want them posted by clubmembers either.

You want the minutes? Earn them:
Join an SCTA club, pull your duties and do your fair share, your president or rep. will provide them to you.

eek!!! I disagree! What about the BNI members who are not in an SCTA club!

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER THAT SIMPLE QUESTION OR ARE BNI MEMBERS NOT SUPPOSED TO SEE THEM?

[desotoman]

How involved? not very, not enough.

The number of meetings I have attended? too darn few, probably less than 10 in the last 2 years. But that should be apparent because I'm in the same club as you are (Sidewinders) and you didn't even know it!!!

I have pulled more duties at El Mirage than I have run on the course there.

The point I am trying to make is still the same:
How does a BNI-only member, who does not live anywhere near SoCal get involved in the political side of the BNI-only events and have his opinion officially recognized?

Regards,

John

John,
   I do know you are a Sidewinder member and have know that since the day you were voted in. Just have not seen you at many meetings this year. Would like to congratulate you on your great run at Bonneville.
   
   Addressing your point. Have you looked in the 2005 rule book to see if there is an answer in there. If you have not, go to Section 18, BNI BOARD MEMBERS, page 188. I believe the answer is there for you to see. If you are a BNI member these are the people to contact with your questions.  Regards, Tom

PS. Come to more meeting and get involved, that is what they are for.

[JohnR]

PS. Come to more meeting and get involved, that is what they are for.

You know Tom, you are not the first to tell me that!

Have a good one

John

[desotoman]

Are BNI members second class citizens ?

Jack,
   BNI members have their own board. I suggest if you are a BNI member that you read Section 18. Contact these people and tell them your concerns. Regards, Tom

[JackD]

BNI does not make any rules that concern competition. They are strictly chartered with the responsibilities for the logistics of the event.
While that certainly has some impact on a lot of things that interest all the entrants,The direct application of the rules and equal treatment is of most concern.
"Circling the wagons with the Indians already on the inside is no more effective that winking at a girl in the dark."

[desotoman]

J.D., Maybe you should go back to page three and reread what John said.  He was not talking about himself.  You and Tom are so damn self rightious, you can't seem to follow the posts on here without burying your heads further in the sand.  Unless the SCTA has something to hide, there should be no reason to not make any and all information available to not only their members, but to those of us who pay money to race at their events.  What are you guys afraid of?  No one is trying to do a disservice to the SCTA or its board, we would just like to know what is being discussed and what to expect.  We are not asking for a vote, only a end to the secretive nature of the "good old boys".

Bob,
   I know I frustrate you, but really I don't mean to. You are entitled to your opinion of me, that's cool.
 
   "Good old boys" that can be interpreted may ways. I can tell you I have been to many SCTA board meeting and everything is above board. Yes it is out on the table for everyone to see. I agree with Dan Warner's post on what Roy Creel said.
     
    Bob, pick up the phone and called a board member to see what is going on. (Most cell phones are free on the weekends so it does not cost you anything) I have called board members and they have always been nice to me, and have answered all of my questions. If you have technical questions look in the rule book Appendix B, page 198-199, and call the person for the class you run in. That is the extent of the help I can give you.  It is up to you to make the call

    It is amazing how much contact information is in the rule book, if we would all just take some time to read it.   Regards, Tom

[landracing]

This is a response I received from Roy Creel to a request I made when trying to remember why the minutes are not posted on line:

Dan , in reply to you inquiry,
 
Memory test-
Posting of SCTA minutes on our website was discussed at length at prior board meetings and it was decided not to do it....Why?
 
1. To encourage the distribution of information via the club reps and presidents in the form of member participation at the meetings.
2. The minutes do not reflect all of the discussion that takes place at the meetings. The reps "fill in the gaps" as to how and why decisions were made.
3. While the minutes document the decisions made, they can easily be taken out of context or mis- interpreted.
4. The association runs on strictly volunteerism. Responding to constant pot shots from non members who do not participate in the process or contribute to the process just adds to the load on those volunteer officers.
5. All clubs have at least one officer that is computer literate and able. The minutes are electronically published and can be forwarded electronically via the club.
 
You want the minutes? Earn them:
Join an SCTA club, pull your duties and do your fair share, your president or rep. will provide them to you.
 
Roy Creel

So are BNI people second rate as Jack says. We all support LSR in our own ways... I support and promote and keep people informed by the website... I provide a place where families can come see whats going on with their loved ones during the events... I provide information on whats going on... Not only SCTA but the other organizations too....

Provide the racers with information they deserve I say...

Internet searches work real good, like google.....

[joea]

dont worry John (others) the virtue of "rights"
and priveledges has been earned because of many before you
and I..........we are simply looking for further understanding......

scta/bni financial info is also of interest to the many who
have a stake in the organizations........

there are some of SCTA hierarchy who said "no we wont
allow it to be posted".........well guess what, as a not-for-profit
entity........its NOT UNDER YOUR CONTROL............BY LAW........

it is PUBLIC DOMAIN .............

after 3 minute net search........

http://www.guidestar.org/

register for free.....

did search for southern california timing association....

and the info accessible.......
http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?npoId=100237758

scolled down to irs form 990 and an adobe acrobat version supplied..
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2003/330/296/2003-330296342-1-9.pdf

same for any non profit ie BNI.....

its a very handy site for those interested in discerning financial info
of those entities you might want to know about before or after
investing........

 desire for information and enhanced understanding is often percieved
as threatening to certain folks........even those "well intentioned"........

[landracing]

[quote="desotoman] If you have technical questions look in the rule book Appendix B, page 198-199, and call the person for the class you run in. That is the extent of the help I can give you.  It is up to you to make the call

    It is amazing how much contact information is in the rule book, if we would all just take some time to read it.   Regards, Tom[/quote]

Really what about the tech board in your class that dont call back, or return emails??? Or take weeks to answer?

Its interesting a met someone this weekend who doesn't have a cell phone, doesn't have a phone and goes to the libarary weekly to search the internet...

Jon

[Bob Drury]

Tom, I have nothing against you or J.D., nor anyone else for that matter.  What I disagree with is the way changes are made (or not).  All of us have opinions on all subjects, and a lot of preconceived notions about everything from politics to rules that we race by.  When J.D. says "as soon as the rules are made, SCTA sends out this info"  This is exactly the problem as I see it.  If I understand my Roberts Rules and Orders correctly, any new rules or amendments should come before a committee for discussion before being voted on by the board members.  Both the committee members and the board members are probably going to have their own agendas and preconceived notions, thats only human nature.  What I would like to do is open up the disscussion end of this.  If any future rule changes or amendments come before the committee, why not post them for open disscussion before voting to make them law.  A open discourse on this site might open the voting members eyes to something they didn't know, or have forgotten.  How they vote may or may not be affected by what information they glean, but at least those of us who are not members would at least  have a chance to offer input.  The biggest problem I see is that I don't believe many on the board even bother to visit this site.  Allthough we all may have different ideas, I think we all are just trying to make a good thing better.  A little input never hurts...........




d

[don pennington]

I voted no.

I am not sure I should even vote since I am one of those fringe people who enjoy the hell out of Bonneville and it's history but have never made a pass, helped with the course or done anything at Bonneville except have the time of my life. I have been helping out on a car for the last 10 years but am not a member of SCTA or BNI. Why... I'm not sure.

My vote is one of protection than anything else. There are people out there that have no business knowing what SCTA/BNI is doing. If they want that information they need to participate. If the information is readily available at meetings and through clubs then they should go and get a copy, or ask someone to share. But just because it is "public information" doesn't mean that it should be layed out on the internet. As convenient as the internet is for many things, there is much that should not be made available so readily. Why expose what you are doing, who you are doing it with and what it costs? Why would you want to expose internal discussions, some of which may be very touchy and unresolved, to people who do not have best interests of SCTA/BNI at heart.

Clubs are clubs, and virtually every club has the same internal issues. What drives a club farther off the centerline is when reasonable thinking people withdraw from a club because they don't like what is going on. That is exactly the time when you should be involved, if only on a minimal level. We all know this and have all seen it. Participation is key, which seems a little strange since I am not a member of either.

In my past research, when I have had a question about anything SCTA/BNI, the answer has always been graciously available to me after I have explained what I want the information for.

Concerning the airing of issues or board members understanding what the vast membership and spectators are interested in, maybe more of them  can read these discussions, and combining that with a broader awareness of this site would be a good resource for all.

[joea]

thats why we live in a democracy........and have and live by
laws...........

in this case.........is the lsr society being censored and protected from
ourselves........or is they lsr government wanting to be censored and protected from the society...........

there are folks who would like to have the government who rules
on our lives for it to be done behind closed doors........and thankfully
much of it is not done that way............at least not without a peek.......

there are thousands that "participate" with their checkbook, outside of
socal..........and truly deserve having the "business" of knowing what
the entity they joined is doing when it comes to issues related to them
risking life and limb............

the scta/bni has our best interests at heart.............and "we the members/participants"
have the organizations best interests at heart as well............

[desotoman]

Really what about the tech board in your class that dont call back, or return emails??? Or take weeks to answer?

Its interesting a met someone this weekend who doesn't have a cell phone, doesn't have a phone and goes to the libarary weekly to search the internet...

Jon

Jon,
  I can only talk for myself. Any person I have contacted (SCTA-BNI)using the phone, has always called me back in a timely manner. I am no one special. I am just a regular SCTA member.

  Emails are not bullet proof. Not everyone is computer savvy, and believe it or not some board members might not even have one. Even though I have one it takes me a lot of time to post replies. I pray I never get any more viruses, last one took me a week to get rid of.

  The person you meet who does not have a phone or the Internet at their residence is NOT the average person. And that is Ok it is their choice.

   You must remember this is a volunteer organization, for amateur racers. Some people take vacations, get sick, have to travel for work, or have emergency's to deal with. If someone does not call you back in a timely manner I suggest you contact the BNI-SCTA office and explain your situation, maybe they can direct you to another person who can help. At least give them a little slack, most all have families, and that at least in my book comes first.   Regards, Tom

[Bob Drury]

Wait a minute "Unk", if the SCTA is truely a non-profit, for the racers organization, who are you hiding the information from?  Evil-doers?  Sorry,  George W. already used that one...I am not sure that I agree about releasing financial records, as that is the SCTA's business, but as long as the BNI meets are run using SCTA rules, I think it is every racers business.  A classic example is how the brain surgeons came up with the Classic class, calling a 1980 Camaro a classic, and then saying any car older than 1981 had to run the class for life(since recinded).  Who came up with this, and better yet, who voted it in.  It seems like a little racer input could have been used , specificly the entrants who run the classes involved.  Jeez. a 1973 anything being called a classic makes me want to puke........................

[jimmy six]

Since I must have something to hide. I am now strongly contimplating the following:

As soon as I post this I will find a way to remove my name from landracing.com as I have removed it from the e-mail list.

Bob Drury can now take my place one week ahead of Speed Week and drill the the 2000 holes in the salt for the pits, impound, roadways and the like placing all stakes. He must be able to work with the people who volunteer with this along with putting up approximately 1 mile of barricade flags or ribbon.

He must tow out, during set-up week, and tow back in on the last day, after most have left, any trailers/generators from storage as directed by the the race director, BNI director or pit director.

He must be in impounds at Bonneville every morning by 0600 to recieve the vehicles and lead them to the starting line.

When possible he must go to Bonneville in July and help find a suitable courses and drag said courses.

He will need to know the placement of the 48 s-houses which apparently he thinks I am in.

He will also make all the Bonneville and El Mirage Certificates.

He will also make all the timing tags. Mailing them out and remailing them when they come back. Desiminating the El Mirage tags to the respective club reps or presidents at meetings.

He will need to be at EVERY EVENT to inspect the vehicles. Set up and tear down the inspection area.

He need to get proficient in certifying all bodies of the record setting vehicles knowing the idiosyncracys of each class. W/Dan W.

He must also be proficient in engine certification using all of the ways in which the SCTA certifies engines. W/Dan W.

He must walk the 1-3/10 mile El Mirage course on Saturday starting at 5:00pm representing SDRC looking for debris on the course.

He must work all Sundays at El Mirage welcoming spectators, giving them wrist bands and giving the proper direction if needed at the resistration trailer. W/Warren B.

He will become the SDRC Club rep and attend all SCTA Meeting and report to the SDRC President.

If I missed anything He can do that too.

I will continue look up past history as I like that.
Now it looks like I may have some time to run my own car...Good luck Bob with all your new responsibilites and good luck to the rest of you too.

J.D. has left the building...........