Rotary Motor "Correction factor":

[JackD]

His English to American translation was not bad.
The translation into performance is still a problem for some.

"Tradition unhampered by progress."
The mile thing is very doable and should be adopted.
A couple of really standard racer classes and after that the club can do whatever it wants.
I see a future for Bar Stools,Ice Cream Trucks, Taxis, Limos, Saloons, Lorries,Buses(single and double deck), and Special Needs Vehicles.
The combinations are endless.

[Malcolm UK]

Jack D, my take on this was the US can have 'roadsters' if the Brits can have a world class for Milk Floats.

[KeithTurk]

Okay it's going to take all the decency I can muster to answer this... so here goes.

We don't call anything we do a "World Record"... NEVER HAVE... they are ECTA RECORDS... Set at any Venue we choose to run on that is 0ne mile long.  Those Two Venues have been Moultrie GA. and Maxton NC.

John Beckett established our procedures and then last year just before he backed away from running the ECTA he held a meeting where the members voted on running up in category and engine size... it was determined that the we would only allow engine size changes for the near future and have another vote on it at a later date,  Running a car as a streamliner would no longer be permitted.   It was allowed in the early years simply to provide funds to keep the organization alive, of course you'd know that if you'd been there.

As for any of our records... feel free to come run on any of them.  We'd still welcome you with open arms...   Your sit on scooter is going to need to run somewhere around 258mph to be competitive... ( you've got one of those don't you ? )  Personally I'd really rather see you run a modified sports, or an Altered,  gas or fuel.... it would be fun to watch.

Rule books are available from Tonya Turk at 206 Sylvan Dr Enterprise AL 36330 ... send your 10 bucks and she'll be happy to put one in the mail.

She's also one of our Board members so you could offer your apology to her at the same time...

[narider]

For a while I thought someone had slipped into FIA knocking mode yet again ........ then I saw that it was a 'local' dispute between two sides of the same Country (and the Europeans were not involved).  

Hmmm, did you maybe do some spy and espeonage work to get this going and take the heat off ya'll?  

A rule difference between SCTA/BNI and ECTA just shows me that the racing organisations are of different eras.  Its up to the individual racer to decide which set of rules, or place on the planet, that they wish to compete at.

Well put Malcolm. I don't have to eat dirt to know I don't like the taste(no offense to El Mirage - lol), but I don't have to put down those that do eat it to make me feel better about the BS I feed myself.
Todd Dross
PS: KT, for having the ability of being one of the most sarcastic guys I know... I'm proud of you buddy!  

[LittleLiner]

The problem here is not the ECTA.  IMO the problem is that Nebulous Theorem II H/BGS has outclassed all the higher engine classed Blown Gas Streamliner cars at Bonneville.  One of those records is held by 1212FBGS.

I've never met anyone from the Nebulous Theorem  II team so I can't speak for them.  However it is not difficult to imagine what would happen if the SCTA adopted a rule allowing cars to run 'up-class' for additional records.  Someone with a car like Nebulous Theorem II with enough effort and enough runs could break all the higher BGS class records.

Many in the SCTA are also upset with "World Record" designation given to an entry that can go 100mph with a combination that should go 200mph . . . . .

.  

Yes but why are they upset?  That - is the question.

IMO it seems strange for SCTA to allow ?world record? designations to a car that has a 3 litre engine and a record of 246.914 mph when it has been demonstrated that a similar car with an engine only one third that displacement (less than 1 litre) has set a record of 315.378 mph.  And that same other car with a different engine that is only one half the size of the 3 litre car has set a record of 331.133mph.  

Can someone explain how it is creditable (or as some would say ?createable?) to hold a record that is 84 mph slower than the class record for cars with half that allowed displacement?

Or to twist the words that Jack put forth ? Shouldn?t many in the SCTA be upset with a ?World Record? designation given to an entry that can go 246.914mph in a combination that should go over 331.133mph?

To use a wrestling analogy - It is like the champion in the 200 pound class getting his butt kicked by the champion in the 100 pound class.  How much does that 200 pound class trophy mean when that happens?

Wouldn?t it be more creditable for the SCTA to retire records in higher displacement classes when a faster record is set by a lower class car and to install minimums for the higher classes that are at (or slightly higher than) the speed set by the smaller car?  

Then the records would be creditable.

[KeithTurk]

Thought of going faster yet?

[landracing]

THis is fun, east vs west im in the midwest so I an neutral.

I have both opinions for both sides on this.

First I somewhat agree with Kent on the running up of the classes with smaller displacement engines. And to add to that I think the ECTA would be more credible if ALL engines were measured. Because they do not I think some credibility is lost in the running. EL Mirage has found a way to measure anybody that sets records at the event. But they also have a larger manpower and lots of groups to help with that. I think the ECTA is moving in that direction to set something up like that. WHen they do, I see it being more credible.


On the other hand, these class changes have kept the organization alive for many years. There is no other participant that has dedicated finacially to help keep the organization alive then Scott Guthrie. WIthout his dedication to the ECTA I think it would have dissolved many years ago. Thanks Scott.


Keith I dont think Kent needs a 258 machine to be competitive, I mean if he has a well tuned 125 he could take some records with and get maybe 10 records or so in the meet... I probably think that Kent has the resources to have one of those 250+ machine available at his disposal if needed.

Jon

[dwarner]

Thought of going faster yet?
************************

Well said sir.

[JackD]

Actually MK is in the middle and you guys go both ways from there.
All of this discussion has been done before many years ago. The real race cars didn't like the door slammers until they found they needed each other. When John Vesco came out with the first evolution of the narrow liner in the 50s that evolved into the Nish car. It was allowed to run time only because the organization didn't like such a narrow car and they were sure he would scare himself out of it.
You should have heard the screaming when Don De Bring went so fast in his liner at the Lakes. They wanted him to do a backup run. The sudden rule change didn't fly, but he did and that was the end of that.
Face it, the Pushrodders hate the Cammers, the 2 Stroke and Wanakers*. At least that is the same from car to bike,\. Now we have Elder and Vintage.
"The older we get, the faster we were."
As KT sorta said in his best charm school drop out dialect "Hell I didn't pay attention to him either, did he mention going faster helps?"

* Only MK can translate that for you.

[JohnR]

Wouldn?t it be more creditable for the SCTA to retire records in higher displacement classes when a faster record is set by a lower class car and to install minimums for the higher classes that are at (or slightly higher than) the speed set by the smaller car?  

Then the records would be creditable.

Actually, I'm suprised that the 2 clubs have not already done this. Before anyone asks, no, I'm not a member of any of them (yet!) so I'm not trying close the door after passing through.

[Sumner]

Can someone explain how it is creditable (or as some would say ?createable?) to hold a record that is 84 mph slower than the class record for cars with half that allowed displacement?

Or to twist the words that Jack put forth ? Shouldn?t many in the SCTA be upset with a ?World Record? designation given to an entry that can go 246.914mph in a combination that should go over 331.133mph?

To use a wrestling analogy - It is like the champion in the 200 pound class getting his butt kicked by the champion in the 100 pound class.  How much does that 200 pound class trophy mean when that happens?

Wouldn?t it be more creditable for the SCTA to retire records in higher displacement classes when a faster record is set by a lower class car and to install minimums for the higher classes that are at (or slightly higher than) the speed set by the smaller car?  

Then the records would be creditable.

It seems at first thought that if a 1 1/2 liter motored car can run 331 then a C to B motor car should run much faster.  The fact is that you also have to package that larger motor that also requires much larger drivetrain components inside of a body that cheats the wind as much as the body does with the 1 1/2 liter car.  Almost everything gets bigger resulting in a larger body with more aero drag and at those speeds that is the big thing to overcome.  An example is that Jack has numerous records with the bigger body Nebulous Theorem I, yet the top speed of the two cars has been close even though Jack can put larger motors in his car.

Not to take anything away from what Rick has done, but he is working with a better (smaller) package and has taken it to the next level.  I admire what he has done, but I don't give less credit to the guys that are running slower than him with larger motors.  If it was easy those records would be higher as there has been some awful good people and cars running in those classes.

I myself hope to run a motorcycle motor in my lakester and take advantage of the smaller package to hopefully run some high speeds with a lakester.  Speeds comparable to what I was hoping to run with a sbc V-8, but I sure wouldn't want to see the day come where the only streamliners and lakesters out there were running motorcycle motors as that was the only package setting the records.  Right now you see the same thing with turbos.  It is really the only smart thing to run in a blown class yet I still love to see roots blown cars run and am glad that people still run them.

Just my thoughts,

Sumner

[JohnR]

...All of this discussion has been done before many years ago. The real race cars didn't like the door slammers... Face it, the Pushrodders hate the Cammers, the 2 Stroke and Wankers.

I have to admit that what you say has some merit. We all enjoy a bit of sarcasm and merryment at the expense of the directionless masses who haven't yet seen the light and persist in competing in classes less worthy than our own, but I would just hope that we all can self moderate and keep it from getting mean.

[JackD]

No. that's not right. I am not mean, I mean't to say. Strike the word"Face' and enter "Enjoy'
THX

[JohnR]

No. that's not right. I am not mean, I mean't to say. Strike the word"Face' and enter "Enjoy'
THX

Jack,

I was not referring to any post you made as being mean, it was more of a general comment about how some posts go too far rather than a specific one directed at anyone. No worries!

[LittleLiner]

Sumner,  good points sir.   I can't argue with anything you said but I would like to point out something about the need for a bigger car to fit a bigger engine.   There are some pretty compact car engines available for the three litre classes.  Certainly a tad larger than a bike engine but still small enough that the driver is still the largest 'component' in the vehicle.  I am thinking about engines like those used in Midget Racing.  

Also . . .You said . .

The fact is that you also have to package that larger motor that also requires much larger drivetrain components inside of a body that cheats the wind as much as the body does with the 1 1/2 liter car.  Almost everything gets bigger resulting in a larger body with more aero drag and at those speeds that is the big thing to overcome.  

True as that might be there are still a few interesting exceptions to the physics.  One that comes to mind is the Bonneville record for F/BGALT at 255.767mph while the F/BGS record slightly slower than that. . . .

Anyway . . good luck with the lakester.  I relly enjoy your construction web page.        . . . . ..  Art