Rotary Motor "Correction factor":

[Rex Schimmer]

Looking through the 2005  rule book, and I am sure that it has been this way for a number of years, I see the "correction factor" for the Wankel engine is 3X the "sweep volume" . This means that a Mazda 12A motor with about 1100 cc's of sweep volume would be equated to a recip engine of 3.3 liters. Well I can tell you that the most you will ever get from a normally asperated 12A with periferal ports, fuel injection and all the other trick parts is less than 300 hp at 10,000 and I have ran them on 20% nitro and never made more that 315 and any good 3.3 piston engine will make 400+ in a heart beat! and a really god one will make 600! (And, yes I know that the F1 guys are getting over 900 from 3 liters but I just can't afford the $500,000 price tag.)I would think that the correction factor should really be 2 or 2.5 at the most.

I know they are loud but they are simple and will run 10,000 rpm for 24 hours. If the correction factor was more realistic you might see some more of these great little engines on the salt.

Rex

[StraightSix]

If you compare the displacement in terms of quantity of air pumped per crankshaft revolution, the multiplier should be 2x.

All the more credit to Racing Beat and the rotary engine that their records still stand, one since 1978  

[dwarner]

The 3x factor came from the NHRA rulebook in force at the time. If the 3x factor is so restrictive why are there records in the book, one at least 27 years old, that have not been beaten?

Seems an easy record to me if I were inclined to race something in that displacement class.

Warner

[LittleLiner]

Looking at the 2002 and the 2005 rule books from the ECTA I see that some time between 2003 and 2005 the ECTA rotary factor was changed from 3x to 2.3x.  So by the 2005 ECTA Rules it appears that a 1308cc 13B Mazda would factor out to 3008.4 cc.   That puts it in the top of the F class.  Under SCTA it would be in the E class.

I recall some discussion here a while back (maybe it was Warner) that when an engine measures between the top of a class and the botton of the next class (in this case between 3.00 litre and 3.01 litre) that it goes in the lower class.  

If the factor isn't changed by SCTA, maybe the solution could be to form a new class (are you on line JackD?)  Something like Rear Engine Rotary Powered Classic Hatchback.  (El-Caminos may run this class with tailgate up)  (:>)

[JackD]

I have an 86 RX-7 that I was going to put my Buick V-6 stuff into. It is more slippery than my Monza, I mean Buick
Can I help ? Where do you need me ?
Lets race. Can I get one of those "WORLD RECORD" things ?
I have D, E ,and F sizes, but if the rotary will do it, that would be more fun in production at least to start.
Actually I have a Red one and a White one. Great, I can run 2 classes and make them sound like an outboard..
OH BOY !!!

In memory of Don Sherman

[1212FBGS]

HAHA you guys are so funny. I wanna get me some more of those ?world record things? LOL.  Littleliner you crack me up who really gives any credibility to the ECTA? Especially since they don?t even enforce their rules. You can take whatever you want there, classify it whatever you want, and set a record for the price of an entry. Sounds perfect for a rotary. Too bad there so far away, I?d have me a bunch more of those ?world record things?. You can bet your butt the SCTA wont change a rule just because the ECTA did. LOL?.LOL?.

[JackD]

"When things get tough, the tough get going"
"Theoretical records are set by theoretical racers"
BYE YALL.

[KeithTurk]

How many records have you set with the ECTA Kent?  
Do you know why we changed the factor?  
Do you know what we call our records?
Have you read or do you own one of our rule books?  
Do you know if the SCTA has ever followed our lead on anything Kent?

 You seem to have a fair grasp of when to apologize... so here you go... yet another opportunity to excel.

[1212FBGS]

OOOPS looks like I hit another nerve. No Keith I?ve never been there. I have seen the ECTA rules IMO they kind of follow a creatable organization?s rules. Nope never been there, don?t have any records there although by the looks of it I don?t think any one would have a problem setting a record there. You ask ?do I know what you call your records?? By the ECTA home page my guess would be ?A RECORD!? Whatever you call them I think it?s kind of like kids AYSO soccer ?everyone plays? ya know. I mean come on, how creatable is it when a guy can take a production 125 and set a 125,175, 250, 350, 400, 500, 650, 750,and 1000cc records all with the same bike!!!! Look at your records it?s true! That crap wouldn?t happen here. Don?t get me started about the ecta streamliner records. Come on, have ya guys ever had a bike liner ever run? Your organization really down plays and discredits everyone who builds a legitimate land speed machine. Congrats on your B-ville record, they are records to be proud of.
Kent

[JohnR]

Doing my best Rodney King impersonation: "Can't we all just get along?"

My mommy used to say if you don't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all. After reading this thread, I have to say she was probably right.

[equimania]

I mean come on, how creatable is it when a guy can take a production 125 and set a 125,175, 250, 350, 400, 500, 650, 750,and 1000cc records all with the same bike!!!! Look at your records it?s true! That crap wouldn?t happen here.

AHEM.  I happen to be "that guy."  And I am not insulted
or upset that you use me as an example of what, in
your opinion, is wrong with the ECTA.  But you should be
careful about presenting your unfounded opinions as fact.  
You're just flat out wrong to say because ECTA has allowed
"running up" in class or has a different conversion factor for
rotaries, that they don't enforce their own rules.  They ARE  
their rules.  You may not like it, but that does not make it wrong.  
I don't like the DH in baseball.  But it is the rule.  It doesn't
make the whole organization somehow inferior.  Just different.

I don't want to get into the propriety of being allowed to
run-up in class all over again, since it's been kicked to death
here, but I don't consider it "crap."  It's just a slight difference
in philosophy, as to whether engine sizes ought to be
brackets or ceilings.  If a 999cc bike (or car) can run faster
than a 1001cc machine, why would you want to purposefully
exclude the smaller one from taking a record in the next
higher class if it can genuinely run faster?  The line is
arbitrary to begin with.  IMHO, not allowing running up
in class dilutes the record.  Just my opinion, however.  
And I am not going to attack the whole SCTA because
they don't agree with me. <G>

And, no, I don't think my 1000cc production record will
last for long.  As soon as someone with a larger bike
comes along, it'll be gone.  But now they've got something
to shoot at.  The ECTA is a relatively young organization
and all the "soft" records will work themselves out in due
time.

I, for one, think you owe the ECTA and its officials an apology.  
But, that's just another opinion.

Mark

[narider]

I, for one, think you owe the ECTA and its officials an apology.  
But, that's just another opinion.
Mark

Although these are all just opinions, as you state Mark, at least yours and most others are knowledgable opinions.

HAHA you guys are so funny. I wanna get me some more of those ?world record things? LOL.  Littleliner you crack me up who really gives any credibility to the ECTA? Especially since they don?t even enforce their rules. You can take whatever you want there, classify it whatever you want, and set a record for the price of an entry. Sounds perfect for a rotary. Too bad there so far away, I?d have me a bunch more of those ?world record things?. You can bet your butt the SCTA wont change a rule just because the ECTA did. LOL?.LOL?.

My mommy used to say if you don't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all. After reading this thread, I have to say she was probably right.

I believe your mom was correct also John, but am sorry to say I never even listened to my mom well. You would think by what my dad put me thru I would know better then to do what I'm about to do though, but appearantly not.

With that said.. 1212FBGS, I don't have a problem with sarcasm, misconceptions, ignorance, speculations or opinions being voiced...  but(by reading your first statement), you couldn't seem to seperate those at all. You opened with sarcasm and closed with ignorance.. and it shows alot.
Todd Dross

[1212FBGS]

Bla, Bla, Bla (sarcasm) so mark........ Would you go down to your local bike shop or send a press release to a magazine and say "I'm proud to announce I set a 1000cc world record at 100mph"? That’s why I think what you did and what others in the ECTA are aloud to do discredits what hard working land speed racers do. That’s why I don’t give them any credibility. Let me ask ya another question..... nah forget it. Yeh I'm stirring up the bee's nest again but for every ECTA guy I piss off I know there is a dozen SCTA guys who feel the same way.

[JackD]

Many in the SCTA are also upset with "World Record" designation given to an entry that can go 100mph with a combination that should go 200mph.
It is club racing and the rules serve and meet the needs and demands of the membership and the event.
Did I read around here someplace that it will take a couple of hundred years to fill the 0 minimums at SCTA. I guess I could examine the record rate and look at the open classes. While I would get a headache for sure, I would want to be know before I stepped in it.

This is fun.
 What else ya got ?

[Malcolm UK]

For a while I thought someone had slipped into FIA knocking mode yet again ........ then I saw that it was a 'local' dispute between two sides of the same Country (and the Europeans were not involved).
 

Perhaps I should not get involved with something that does not affect me (i haven't got a rotary motor) - but we all have our opinions and Jon gives us this place to share them.

Rotary equivalences have taxed most, if not all, motor racing organisations - those that saw the Wankel as a power threat to the 'trusty american iron V8' went to an extreme position based on ..... well I do not know what science (if any was used).  Others have used a more practical approach and reached a better equivalency factor.

A rule difference between SCTA/BNI and ECTA just shows me that the racing organisations are of different eras.  Its up to the individual racer to decide which set of rules, or place on the planet, that they wish to compete at.

I think Kent R might suffer from 'indignation meltdown' if the plans for "World Short Course" land speed records do come to fruition in 2006 or 2007.  When ECTA and other racing organisations around the world could if they wish genuinely place "World" at the top of a timing certificate and the world encompasses many Nations and a single rule book developed by racers using different body shaped vehicles.

(JackD - plenty to go at here ........)