200 MPH Club

[landracing]

all this talk and JoeA has nailed it on the head... Sorry they dont have a record. Record are ratified in October wherever they do it... So if this guy now does not pay the required $200 or $300 ratification fee to have the record in the book it wont be record. FIM is very strict on publishing anything that says "world record" until its ratified....

Just for talk, he could not pay the fee but he has a red hat? And no record? Just a scenario... Not saying it will happen...

Something that is to late at the current moment, however something that should be given consideration in the future...

JonAmo

[Jasontmc]

John,

I will get my 253 mph record moved to the correct class. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

If I read your early response correctly you are upset that the snomo rider may have received a red hat for running just over 200mph and on the other hand you are feel that the APS-F 1350 min(215) is too high.

If the record speed is too low you are upset and if the minimum is too high you are upset. 

[John Noonan]

Jason,

What I said was that I felt that riders running faster speeds with Nitrous did not get "the hat" however a bike with a turbo running a slower speed did and seems unfair. 

A 600 hp 1 liter engine runs in an FIM class (non SCTA, non BNI) at 203 or so and grabs a hat? 

If so then ALL racers running over 200 and setting any record should have a hat..hell they can have one of mine..

As you know from your many attempts at running nitrous, you have been timed over 200 mph on a Turbo 650 class motorcycle and a 253 record on your Turbo 1350 cc class machine.

Take the 1000 cc speed of 205 or so and add 35 % (increased class size) and the minimum should be about 275 (nearly the same speed as an open bike that ran last week (Joe Amo) and it was noted that he may have run 280 plus on that run..

Not tell me again how the < 205 mph record is 2 club worthy?

John

[DahMurf]

BUT... You're leaving out the fact that the turbo bike ran without any streamlining and the nitrous bike ran partially streamlined. It's about CC's, power adders AND streamlining.

FYI,
Turbo not streamlined record is 209.046 with entry to the 200mph club.
Nitrous partial streamlined record is 210.109 with no entry to the 200mph club.

In this comparison that turbo bike should have had more hp applied more reliably & consistently but the disadvantage of no streamlining.

The nitrous bike likely had less hp, less reliably applied and not for the entire duration of the run, however it did have the advantage of partial streamlining.

There is a current record in MPS/F-1350 at 219.555. The nitrous bike is running APS/F-1350.

There is a record in A/BF-1350 at 219.339 and the turbo bike is running M/BF-1350.

It is widely recognized that the A class is less restrictive then the M class and the assumptions are that the A class should be faster. The nitrous bike running in A class has the freedom & advantage to use Joe A stellar type streamlining. Just because it didn't is the teams prerogative & detriment.

Should the unfaired blown minimum have been higher? 210 or 215? Possibly but its too late now. Should the altered fuel minimum remain 215, sure. It's been done by the MPS/F bike, the APS/F has more freedom of rules and should use it.

A lot of time has been put in with the minimums and I know every time I have a discussion on the minimums there is some factor presented to me that I have overlooked or not considered. (Well except for that one pushrod minimum that is clearly out of whack! hmmm.. has that been fixed yet? I wonder)

But at any rate, I'm a BIG fan of Connie's and wholeheartedly want to see her in the 200mph club but that in no way detracts from the fact that Leslie played by the rules and earned her entry into the 200mph club just as the other racers have done before her.

The minimum on the saltmobile, well that one is a bit harder. Off the top of my head, by reasonable comparisons, yeah, it probably should have had one above 200mph but reality is there isn't one. If he ratifies his record and it is common practice to accept FIA/FIM then he should deserve his earned entry.

It certainly should open a new topic of discussion for the 200mph committee on more clearly defining what sanctioning body records will be acknowledged and included. There are many non traditional classes in FIM/FIA. Now is the time to figure it out before everyone is beating on that 200mph door!

[SPARKY]

Want to consider---any first record over 200 gets a hat---just dosen't get to bump "their own record with same vechicle and another rider-driver for another hat---some one else has to RESET the class record before first vech is "elgible" for  another hat in that class. should premote competition bump record faster and DEFINITELY cut down on the angst about minimums and cheap hats!

[DahMurf]

Sparky I disagree with that. As a husband wife team, together we put a lot of time into each vehicle. We don't sandbag for records but we do frequently share a ride. We're each faster depending on circumstance, track and configuration. Why shouldn't we be able to both try for a record with the same vehicle? What if nobody else ever competes in your class? Then you can never let anyone else run that same vehicle? Half the fun of LSR is competing from within your own team! That's like saying once you hold a record you have to retire your vehicle. No sense in improving it for someone else to run because if you hold the record & nobody can beat you then your own team isn't allowed to either. Na, don't like that one at all!

[AJR192]

So John you are saying that this guy dosen't deserve a red hat because the board hasn't set a minimum for snowmobiles? Get real. You are splitting hairs. Remember also that he is not running under a normally santioned event (SCTA, USFRA, BUB). They have no class for snowmobiles. FIM does. He did the right thing by choosing to run at Cook's. If you feel that he didn't do the deed, start another argument with Scott Guthrie and lobby for minimums in snowmobiles. Until then, let the poor guy enjoy his moment.

[joea]

.......EVERYONE HERE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT HE IS THE FASTEST ON A SNOW/SALTMOBILE
IN THE WORLD..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freakin   AWESOME..............

This DISCOURSE has NOTHING to do with this fine person...................

...this discourse is simply needed for many to be aired out.............

.......its what bridges gaps in understanding........NOT behind closed doors..........

......facilitates.......knowledge............

[46champ]

What does snowmachine speed have to do with motorcycle speed.  This isn't just compairing apples to oranges this is more like apples to turnips.  The rolling resistance of that track has to be several times that of a tire.  I don't get the comparison.

[theazoldcrow]

    Why doesn't the hat say "215 mph club" then?  IMO anybody going over 200 mph should get some kind of recognition for their effort, and a 15 dollar hat doesn't seem to be a big deal.  I know this will cause some grief but the Snocat did go over 200 mph didn't it?          Crow.

[fredvance]

There is a new record in 1350 APS-F, no bottle, 213.9. 219.09 qualifier.

  Fred

[joea]

Crow......

......the BUB 201 mph club hat conveys one meaning........commensurate with its standards.......

......the Bonneville 200 mph club hat conveys another........commensurate with its standards.......

[jimmy six]

When I was on the 2 Club board every letter concerning minumums whether car or M/C was read and discussed at length. Scott Guthrie and others mulled over the M/C minumums a long time. I believe it took more than a year. I for one had issues with some of the minimums and did state my concerns when I was a board member and some of the minimums were lowered or removed all together.

Need I remind those of you who are using the word "nitrous" it is just one of the options in the FUEL classes. Perhaps a nitromethane M/C will perform much better than a nitrous machine I don't know. With the 4 wheelers nitro has surpassed many of the nitrous set records.

Other who do not think the way the club is run can pehaps make their own club or upon entry to the one we have now decline the "hat" and all that goes with it. I didn't think membership was mandatory. This subject will always have differences.  JD

PS: Waited waited 28 years for the hat, but worked hard the last 5 for it in 2003. I've only had 2 runs over 200...I guess I didn't do enough in some folks minds.

[thundersalt]

A lot of valid points on both sides of the discussion but the 2 club has rules ( or politics) we have to play by. Recognition for going 200 would be nice so I guess if your not in the club you could do as a friend did and make a lic plate frame that says "I've been 200mph at the Bonneville Salt Flats" or as DW has said in past post " If you don't like the procedure,buy your own colored hats and start your own club"

[Jasontmc]

John,

In my previous post I explained why the open blown minimum is set were it is. I also explained why the 1350 APS-F min was 215.
Now if Fred Vance can run 219 on gas in the fuel class is the 215 min too high? Deb has explained the differences in the two classes that you choose to compare and it is clear that they are very different.

You are correct I have run nitrous and hold several nitrous records and I also hold several turbo records including the fastest open bike record on the salt ever at 253mph+. Your Point is?

Back to the snomo should he get a hat?  

It's up to the club to decide. If you don't agree you can contact the club and if you don't get satisfaction maybe you can start your own club.