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Offline TheRipler

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4WD?
« on: June 16, 2005, 12:03:45 AM »
I have a 2004 SCTA Rulebook, and found particular interest in rule 2.P. I also noticed similar wording on the ECTA web site in the Street Category Rules (II-17).

Quote
2.P FOUR WHEEL DRIVE:

Four wheel drive systems are allowed only in Special Construction Category and Production Category, where the competing vehicle was originally equipped with four wheel drive


I noticed the grandfathered entries were brought up at a board meeting. Is it a recent change?

Mostly, my question is why? Is there a safety issue with AWD vehicles?

..or when it says Production Category, does that include Modified? What happens if an AWD vehicle is modified outside of P or PS? Can you run AWD in the ECTA's /GSS and /BGSS?

TIA

Scott.
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Offline DallasV

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4WD?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2005, 12:36:40 PM »
I believe the rule was put in place to protect the integrety of the vintage classes, particularly the roadster class. There were a few roadsters with 4WD that were grandfathered until somewhere around 2007 or when the vehicle was sold. No safety issues, I'm not even sure who's feathers got ruffled. I run a ridged rear end 2WD roadster so the rule has no bearing on me. But there are a couple of really fast 4WD roadsters that will be slowed down a bit.
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Offline Dynoroom

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4WD?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2005, 01:42:59 AM »
[ But there are a couple of really fast 4WD roadsters that will be slowed down a bit.[/quote]

Dallas, you don't really belieave this do you? Only one 4-wd roadster has gone "fast"(the other one can). If you look at the record book and keep track of others performances as I'm sure you do Tom Parris & Bob Eaton ran 295 or so and Les Leggetts car with KC driving has the "C" record at 282. These are 2-wd as you already know. I know you and your dad had nothing to do with the rule change but others need to be reminded from time to time that if you think someone has an unfair anvantage they whine untill they get it changed. Those same cars above would put turbos in there own class if they could, Fast Freddie and Les showed it can be done with a belt too. When the 505 car becomes a 2 wheeler and removes it's training wheels and still goes "fast" what are they going to do then.
Just venting about another "rule issue" thats not in my mind. Lets get back to real issues like traction control, modified soprts liners, modified roadsters with the engines in the wrong place.
That ought to do it!
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Michael LeFevers
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Offline Dynoroom

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4WD?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2005, 01:45:07 AM »
back to real issues like traction control, modified soprts liners, modified roadsters with the engines in the wrong place.
That ought to do it![/quote]

Hey Dan, I didn't even bring up the issue of "classic"

Now i've done it.
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Michael LeFevers
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dwarner

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4WD?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2005, 08:50:56 AM »
Mike,

You don't know the half of it. I've now got guys asking for an engine break for Classic engines. Like the Vintage motor break out.

That doesn't touch on the BIG diesel truck drag racers that think we should modify our rules to match their drag rules.

It doesn't stop.

DW
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Offline DallasV

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4WD?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2005, 09:42:30 AM »
Mike,
When I say slow down a bit I mean a few MPH and under certain conditions. I do believe that during the heat of the day when the sun brings the water to the surface that the 4WD probably gets a little advantage. I just don't care enough to argue about it. Now to the bigger issue. You say we should be talking about traction control. Come on now Mike we all know the firebird was running traction control for those big numbers.
That last comment was just to wind Joe up.
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Offline desotoman

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4WD?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2005, 11:13:06 AM »
As far as the 4 wheel drive roadsters go the board made the right call.  The playing field will be equal for all. Isn't that what a rule book is all about?
Regards,
Tom Gerardi
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Offline Dynoroom

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4WD?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2005, 11:52:14 AM »
Quote from: desotoman
As far as the 4 wheel drive roadsters go the board made the right call.  The playing field will be equal for all. Isn't that what a rule book is all about?
Regards,
Tom Gerardi


Yep Tom, they should have let everyone who wants 4-wd have it! Glen Deeds got board approval to build that car, it went somewhat fast then ban it. It's a dead issue but whats going to happen when the car is a 2 wheeler and goes faster? I know... ban turbos!

Dallas, :) your good! But it was fun seeing some of the other crews crawling on the ground wanting to look at our "suspension" when the car was in the air during a transmission repair.
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Michael LeFevers
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Offline Dynoroom

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4WD?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2005, 12:08:07 PM »
Quote from: dwarner

Mike,
You don't know the half of it.break for Classic engines. Like the Vintage motor break out.

It doesn't stop.

DW


Dan, it kinda like the constitution, if you mess with it people just keep pushing. You did open that box though, I know why but it's your baby. :wink:
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Michael LeFevers
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Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

landracing

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4WD?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2005, 12:22:20 PM »
old bonneville racers told me

"If rules weren't made to be broken they would have printed the rule book in hard back."

Jon

Let them guys have 4wd, let everybody have 4wd, let everybody have traction control........

Technology is good, why live in the past... Do you have an outhouse too at your home..... Forget the calculator go back to the abacuss..... Forget Email let go back to pony express..... Forget cell phones lets go back to telegraph...... Forget smart bombs and machine guns during war you know to even the playing field and go back to swords and other midevil crap....
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Offline desotoman

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4WD?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2005, 07:01:58 PM »
Mike,
   I over heard Dwayne (the driver) say that in its current state, he could not just take out the front drive shaft and run the car. So I guess the car will need some changes if they decide to still run it after 2007.  Turbo's don't bother me, just don't bitch when you have destroyed your tires and say you need traction control. LOL  :roll:
Regards,
Tom Gerardi
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Offline Dynoroom

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4WD?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2005, 09:39:12 PM »
Quote from: desotoman
Mike,
   I over heard Dwayne (the driver) say that in its current state, he could not just take out the front drive shaft and run the car. So I guess the car will need some changes if they decide to still run it after 2007.  Turbo's don't bother me, just don't bitch when you have destroyed your tires and say you need traction control. LOL  :roll:
Regards,
Tom Gerardi


Your right Tom, they can't take out the front drive shaft. But they can remove the rear.
As for "bitching" I only do that when you guys add classes to make it easier to get a record.
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Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline TheRipler

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4WD?
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2005, 01:30:43 AM »
Yikes!  :shock:

Sorry. Didn't mean to start anything. I just have a 4wd vehicle, and wonder where exactly it would be legal. Don't worry, it's not a vintage roadster. ;)

AWD Turbo Car - The rules seem very clear that they can be run in Production Category. What happens if it was modded out of /PS? If you mated a quad turbo V16 deisel locomotive engine to the transmission, could it stlil be classed somewhere? ..ignoring any obvious issues regarding the laws of physics ;)

AWD Car - /PRO ...same locomotive engine.

I would like to get the AWD/4WD issue out of the way before tackling anything else. I don't think we'll run out of new thread numbers any time soon. So, I'd prefer to hold off on any traction control questions/opinions/facts for the moment.

I wish there were a diagram tree of the classes in the rulebook. Does one exist somewhere else? ..or just definitions of Class and Category.
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