need to class a car

[ddahlgren]

Nissan 350Z N/A stock 2 passenger,2 turbos stock sheet metal. Sounds like a blown gt car am i missing somethig?
 Dave
 
  <small>[ May 19, 2005, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Dave Dahlgren ]</small>

[John Beckett]

Think your right.
 
 JB

[dwarner]

Works for me.
 
 Dan

[Juan Enrique]

This is a question that has intrigued me.  The rulebook states under production coupe and sedan:
 "This category does not include cars properly classified as Sports or GT, such as foreign cars without rear seats suitable for continued adult occupancy."

F/PRO is held by a datsun 280Z 2+2 and J/PRO is held by a Honda Z600 coupe.

The 280Z 2+2 I can understand because the body was different from the regular 280Z to accommodate the back seat, but you would have to be a sado-masochist to think an adult could use that small Hondas rear seat

How come the Honda Z600 is not classified as a GT?
I believe the Honda Insight would be a GT, which would permit any Honda engine?

[LittleLiner]

Concerning rear seats  . . . how big is big enough for 'continued adult occupation'?  Well, not having any first hand knowledge on this, I would suggest contacting the technical points of contact listed toward the end of the SCTA rules (Appendix B if my memory serves me correctly).  Several months back I had a series of questions about rules for Gas Coupe.  I contacted Mr Sykes and got fairly timely and positive feedback.

Concerning the Honda Z600,  I guess some common sense needs to be applied here.  I am trying to imagine any production 'sedan' that was available with a 750cc or smaller engine that had a real big comfy rear seat.  Cars like the Crosley, Fiat 600, Honda Z600, Subaru 360 so i guess alittle leeway on back seat room for J/PRO is warrented.

One problem though.   As I see it - if the body is a legal sedan in PRO it is therefore legal in any Coupe class.  Right?  Anybody know where I can get motor mounts to put a small block in a Fiat 500?

[JackD]

Certification by the DOT could be proof enough to establish the vehicle as a 2 seater or a 4 seater.
My kids rode thousands of miles in the backk seat of My Honda AN600 with the blessing of the DOT.
You might want to take a look at a Merc LN7 and a Ford EXP to decide. Elmo thought He was looking at it every week until he saw I hasd 2. I really had 3. They were cheap.  LOL
The Berkly guys can help you with the SBC nounts for your Fleot.

[Juan Enrique]

How about a Saab 93. 748cc and a decent back seat. I was just wondering what tech would do if someone tried running a car like the Honda AZ600 in GT. Someone could claim it was legal in GT on the basis of the small back seat. I thought Mercury ran an LN7 in GT.

[jacksoni]

Was my understanding, at least in the past, that the Owner/Driver were responsible for properly classifying the body.  Engine, safety etc taken care of by tech.  If someone objected, they had the option to protest.  Perhaps recently the inspectors require some proof of proper classification.
     In 1986 and 1987 a Ford EXP ran in gas and fuel in GC, ALT, CC and GT classes and set records, some of which still stand.  This was done by changing the number/class designation on the car,(and for sure without meeting all the requirements for all these classes) a process which is clearly prohibited in the rule book.  Not to mention that a car cannot run production and GT as noted in the above posts.
    I protested (though not at the meets- which is required I now know).  I never had the courtesy of a response.  Think that the owner being on the board had anything to do with that?
     I am sure such a problem would not occur today ( at least I hope not)
     Sorry for the rant.  Has bothered me for years.

Jack Iliff

[JackD]

You are not correct now or then.

1. The gas coupe had a motor swap.
2. The altered had the grill and head lamps covered.
3. The Comp Coupe had an engine set back , a belly pan, and a streamlined front end.
All on a Ford EXP certified by Ford with the DOT as a 4 seater.

The Mecury LN7 was produced on the same platform as a 2 seater. It featured another front end style and a fast back.
I only had 1 vehicle at Bonneville and made all the changes and was inspected each time.
I had 3 of them and unless you ran El Mirage, you never even saw 2.
I was sandbagging about 10%. Ask Honda with the S2000 project.
Want to race now ?
OBTW: My 1L was faster than your 2L.
If you think that being on the board had anything to do with it, you are not thinking and the result could be an insult if it was not such a laffer.
Be carefull........

[JB]

All on a Ford EXP certified by Ford with the DOT as a 4 seater.

A 4 seater? When was the EXP EVER a 4 seater?  The rules do not state DOT certified, it states fitting adult passengers.  Where could you do this in an EXP?  Maybe thay could lay in the back.

Maybe the rules were different then, but with z's and the twin turbo supra and others running pro and altered instead of gt something is and has not been right.

[JackD]

Most of my competition was Scott Harvey who was the Chrysler Mgr. for the Shelby Charger with Carroll Shelby as the name behind it. He seemud to be convinced.
The documentatiion was provided to the DOT and the Insurance industry by Ford. You might want to check with them also.
Honda also did some research on it, but not enough to go faster I guess.
Is that your problem ?

[JB]

Most of my competition was Scott Harvey who was the Chrysler Mgr. for the Shelby Charger with Carroll Shelby as the name behind it. He seemud to be convinced.
The documentatiion was provided to the DOT and the Insurance industry by Ford. You might want to check with them also.
Honda also did some research on it, but not enough to go faster I guess.
Is that your problem ?

where can you sit an adult in the back of an exp, or z, or supra or.....  there is a big grey area.  Again, I do not know how the rules read then, but now you need to be able to have "continued adult occupation".  You can do it unless you get protested.

I do not have a problem, just trying to understand.
Could you sit in the back of an exp for any period of time?

[JackD]

The SCCA also classified the EXP as a sedan.
The rules for SCTA have not changed with respect to that car.
The Foed Escort had the same rear seat as the EXP. The LN7 had none.
If you sat in the rear seat of My Camero, it is likely your knees would touch your ears.
Why don't you pick on the Crosley J/PRO in the pictures ?
When you are done, you are really going to hate the J/GC and stuff.

[4janey2]

I have owned a Fiat 600 and there is not much run in the backseat. However if the manufacture wants to advertise their car as a 2 or 4 passenger then that should decide whether the car runs as a GC or GT. A car can't change from GC to GT.
SCTA should never have allowed the same car to make this change if this even did happen.
Was there a car that changed back and forth from GC to GT as Jack Iliff mentioned?

[JackD]

The same engine was also used in 2 roadsers the same day at El Mirage and set 2 records. They didn't like that and now it is not allowed.
Remember I had 3 FWD Ford products. The combination of parts to establish a 2 seater or a 4 seater was well documented and observed.
Remember the factory efforts from Chrysler and Honda ?
GMC factory didn't like getting beat by a Buick that was a Monza from a hotrodder either.
Continuious adults come in all sizes and cars too.
Pick a small one, they are easier to make go fast and the driver eats less.