BNI Motorcycle P-PS clarification

[bigmellon]

Hello all.  Let me please start by saying that this site is EXTREMELY informative and well put together.  I have ordered a rule book, ahve been using Google, and am hoping someone can shed some light on this subject in advance of reciept of the book. 

We are looking at some of the smaller displacement (125-250cc) motorcycle classes to see what we may be able to work with.  I would like to run in a roduction class if possible.  I need some clarification so that we can get our ducks in a row, and hopefully see some salt this year!   

In the engine PS class - Does the engine have to be supercharged/turbocharged from the factory?  Or could this be a production engine with a blower/turbo fitted to it?  I am unclear about this one.  If this is a factory installed option, how many does the factory have to make to qualify for P-PS?  Could this be a factory prototype?

Would a longer swingarm constitute a modified chassis?  What modifications usually constitute a modified chassis?  This isn't body work, correct?  We are talking about the frame?

Would a production 150cc engine be run in the 175cc class?  If so, would this permit boring/stroking the engine closer to 175cc range?

I thank you in advance for your assistance!
-Kyle

[donpearsall]

Hey Kyle, welcome to the forum. Will you be on the salt this year? You should have enough time to get things together by August.

The PS class is for "production supercharged" as you know. The engine had to come from the factory that way. Designed, produced and shipped with a turbocharger. According to the rules, at least 500 had to have been produced as OEM. It could not be a prototype because they have to be "available for sale to the public".

Changing the swingarm would make the bike ineligible for the modified class. It would have to be run in the "Special Construction" class.


And lastly, a 150cc could not be run in the 175cc class unless it were bored/stroke so that the displacement is between 175cc - 249cc.

Good Luck
Don

[fredvance]

175- 250 would be the 250 class. Yes you can take your 150 to 174.999 0r maybe 175 dont have my rule book handy.

[donpearsall]

Correction to what I said above - If you are running production, the engine may not be bored/stoked above the next class. So your 150 cc engine would run in the 125cc class, and may not be more than 174cc.

Don

[narider]

You are correct Kyle, A 150cc bike would run in the 175 cc class and you can take it all the way up to 174+cc and stay in it's original intended class... that being 175cc class.

The swingarm woudl depend on the length, a straight swap to an aftermarket one that keeps your bike within 10% of it's original length will put you in modified. Anything that changes the bike from appearing stock would put you in the modified production class, and anything that disqualifies you for the modified production class would put you in the special construction(aka: altered) class.

Welcome and keep reading your rulebook the way you are, you're doing fine.
Todd

[willieworld]

if you are asking about a p-ps class for scta --there is none--production- production supercharged is p-pb   willie buchta 



bigmellon i have a rule book and will photo and post part of the rulebook if you tell me what you need 

[willieworld]

bigmellon    hope this helps    click to make larger  if you need anything else let me know
willie buchta

[bigmellon]

The swingarm woudl depend on the length, a straight swap to an aftermarket one that keeps your bike within 10% of it's original length will put you in modified. Anything that changes the bike from appearing stock would put you in the modified production class, and anything that disqualifies you for the modified production class would put you in the special construction(aka: altered) class.

Thanks for all the quick pointers guys!  So, to run in production form - she is bone stock?  P-P = strictly off the show room floor?  I assume some of these have the engines massaged a little...  Is that accepted?  (balanced, ported, etc)

Is it correct in assuming that the displacement class is the upper limit of what can run in that class??

MPS - could be somethign like a long swingarm with some aerodynamic fairings?

[1212FBGS]

PS is "partial streamlined"

[bigmellon]

bigmellon    hope this helps    click to make larger  if you need anything else let me know
willie buchta

SWEET Willie!  Thanks!

Do you have the pages that describe the chassis and engine mods?  What places you in each, or disqualifies from each?

[bigmellon]

PS is "partial streamlined"

If my understanding is correct, P-PS should be Production chassis, Production Supercharged engine. 

[willieworld]

two pics two pages    thats it for production    there is no production partial streamline   production is whatever it is    it is 
willie buchta

[narider]

I didn't pay attention to the -PS part of your post as it is so second nature for me to see it and have it refered that way since we at the ECTA just recently changed over to the "current" (and changed not so long ago) SCTA designator of -PB. 
But that doens't make you incorrect either Kyle, read on....

If my understanding is correct, P-PS should be Production chassis, Production Supercharged engine. 

You're correct in your understanding Kyle, unfortunately what the others didn't tell you is that you're just a little late in your thinking (as is SCTA in "totally" clearing it up since their change if I'm not mistaken).

Some haven't been around long enough (or haven't looked back through the SCTA's history of where the rules come from) to know:
-PS = Production Supercharged
but was later changed to (and presently is) 
-PB = Production Blown

They're both the same and mean Production forced induction; including blowers, turbochargers and superchargers.

And something failed to be mentioned also is that anything after the "-" is considered an engine designator, so PS would have to be before the "-" to be considered a frame or a body designator (IE: Partially Streamlined).

I don't have one handy, but if you look at the 2008 SCTA rule book in the record section you will likely find a P-PS record or two that never got changed over when the designator's did (although a brief check shows it did on their internet site).

So to many of us, when you say P-PS or P-PB, they mena the same thing, only thing that really matters is that you get it right on your bike, your registration and preferably your logbook.

Hope that helps muddy up the water enough for the history to float to the top for ya. Again, you seem to be asking the right questions and doing just fine.
Todd

[donpearsall]

Just so that there is clarification, I ran into a rules problem with the PS and PB differentiation and the minimum speeds at El Mirage when I ran my Honda CX 500 Turbo. The Elmo speeds referred to PS (meaning Production Supercharged) but other parts of the rules referred to PB - Production Blown. I entered Elmo as 500 P-PB because there was no such minimum published.  I was denied the record because they decided that the minimum for PB should be the same as PS  - AFTER I HAD RUN AND HAD THE BIKE INSPECTED.

So there is both PS and PB in the book but both refer to a Production Turbocharged engine.
Don

[willieworld]

i looked through the bonneville records and the el mirage records and minimums and there is no p-ps but there is a p-pb in every class at el mirage--todd is probably correct in the history of the class.  but whatever you do dont enter your bike in the wrong class it could be very expensive  300 dollars for a class change at bonneville ( i think you can change for free if you havent made a run yet )   just some thoughts                            willie buchta