Modifications to the 2009 rules changes

[dwarner]

Howard,

Please accept my apology for not responding to your earlier post. We welcome all input from the manufacturers of products which will be of benefit to our competitors.

I have passed your post along to Roy Creel and Lee Kennedy in our organization.

Again, I apologize for my neglect,
Dan

[1212FBGS]

I just emailed defender... if they contact me back i will take my liner down to test fit...
kent

[836dstr]

Kent,

I e-mailed them also. Thinking about your "liner and Gordie's.

Not sure if Shawn's Belly Tank would be representative. Not sure of the seat angle, but seems a little more vertical.

Did you sell the "Boat Tail Roadster"?

Tom

[gbaker]

Gregg,

Thank you for your instructive input. I will pass this on to Roy. I would like to explore your products in more depth. Will we be able to contact you directly at your address?

Thank you for posting,
Dan

Dan,

Sure.  The address in my profile is fine.  It is a very busy time of the season though, so I apologize in advance if responses are delayed.

[Sumner]

I sent the following to rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org.  When I get a reply I'll post it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

A number of us building cars and that have cars wonder about the head restraint addition to the rule book:

Beginning January 1, 2010 all new cars and motorcycle streamliners presented for inspection shall have an engineered and tested SFI spec 38.1 type head and neck restraint system.  The association intends that this requirement shall be inclusive of all cars and motorcycle streamliners as soon as applicable devices are available for these vehicles

Will a SFI spec 38.1 tag be required on the restraint?

Would widely used and accepted head restraints such as the Safety Solution D-cel and the Isaac head restraints be accepted if they don't have an SFI spec 38.1 rating?

If we have a car with a seat back inclination that does not meet the requirements of current makers of head restraints, for example streamliner or lakester, can we use one that isn't spec 38.1 or none at all?

If the answer to the last question is that it is in our hands and then later a device is made by at least one manufacture for extreme laydown cars like a streamliner or lakester will we then be required at that point to purchase and use that device.

Thank you,

Sumner Patterson

I received the following back from Mike  Manghelli:

I will answer your questions below in red....

A number of us building cars and that have cars wonder
>
>about the head restraint addition to the rule book:
>
>
>
>"Beginning January 1, 2010 all new cars and motorcycle
>
>streamliners presented for inspection shall have an
>
>engineered and tested SFI spec 38.1 type head and neck
>
>restraint system. The association intends that this
>
>requirement shall be inclusive of all cars and motorcycle
>
>streamliners as soon as applicable devices are available
>
>for these vehicles."
>
>
>
>Will a SFI spec 38.1 tag be required on the restraint?
>
>
>
> If the system is SFI certified it WILL have a tag with
>the cert number and
>the date.
>
>
>
>Would widely used and accepted head restraints such as the
>
>Safety Solution D-cel and the Isaac head restraints be
>
>accepted if they don't have an SFI spec 38.1 rating?
>
>That is why it says "engineered and tested SFI 38.1 TYPE"
>these are both
>engineered and tested, but not certified..
>
>
>
>If we have a car with a seat back inclination that does
>not
>
>meet the requirements of current makers of head
>restraints,
>
>for example streamliner or lakester, can we use one that
>
>isn't spec 38.1 or none at all?

None at all will not be an
>option in the future. Have you spoken to and or worked with the
>manufacturers for your
>particular vehicle? There are several new units on the
>market..
>
>
>
>If the answer to the last question is that it is in our
>
>hands and then later a device is made by at least one
>
>manufacture for extreme laydown cars like a streamliner or
>
>lakester will we then be required at that point to
>purchase
>
>and use that device.

Yup..


Since I didn't think that I had maybe worded my questions very well I tried again with this one:

Thanks for getting back to me so soon. I guess I feel that
I could interpret your answers a couple different ways, so
could I get a yes or no for this one.

If I show up in 2010 with my lakester and I have either a
Safety Solutions D-cel or a Isaac head restraint and they
still haven't passed the SFI 38.1 spec at that time and
don't have a tag would they be allowed?

Mike's reply:

That is correct!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Now after reading the answers and the new comments from SCTA personal in the above posts I am still confused.  In the current rule book when safety items such as helmets, suits, gloves, etc. are mentioned with an SFI rating they have to have a SFI tag on them with the rating.  If the new rules intent is to have us use a head/neck restraint and it doesn't have to actually have an SFI 38.1 tag on it, but just have been tested to show that it isn't a home built device then I would favor new wording that leaves out any mention of SFI and has wording that would show that the restraint has to be manufactured by a reputable manufacture in the Safety field.

I would like to make sure I have a device in my car this following year that will meet future rules even if it wouldn't be required since the car wouldn't be a "new" car in 2010.  I'm sure hoping that an SFI one will be presented that will work in our small extreme laydown cars.  Kent hopefully you will be able to answer this question soon.

c ya,

Sum

[thundersalt]

This leads me to beleive that all tech inspectors will have to have a list of all acceptable manufacturers that have been tested but do not have a sfi tag on them or they will have to take the entrants word that it has been tested to sfi specs.

[dwarner]

Sum,

This looks like your best bet at this time:

"Defender: In Santee, Ca. He seems promising, DJ carrys it , I hope to send someone to their factory to try in small laydown cars. They are willing to make a modified version to accomodate us."

DW

[1212FBGS]

I haven't heard back from em yet... I'll persue it after the holidays
Kent

[836dstr]

Don't feel bad Kent, they haven't contacted me either.

Tom

[DSR Bruts]

Tom, Kent and Dan....I received the following from Rachel Lewis at DefNder....on Tuesday, 16 Dec....

"We are currently experiencing some technical issues with the defNder.com email...therefore we are using this email for the time being (i.e. defnder@hotmail.com).

Thank you for the information on the forum.  I will pass this information onto the appropriate people.

The shopping cart on the website should be up soon, we are just finalizing the merchant account.  We are able to take phone orders now.  If you are interested in purchasing a unit, please call 888-NECKBRACE.  Thanks Rachel Lewis

[chopperusa]

Just kind of curious what the current indy or f-1 cars are using. Do they lay back as much as some of the lakester drivers?
  I am kind of new to this but i have always thought that the indy or f-1 cars had about the most reclined driver position that would be comfortable and not put any extreme pre-load on the drivers neck.
 And what is the typical drivers seat and seat padding made out of (thinking mainly of in the streamliners/lakester's)?

[Evil Tweety]

I've been reading over this thread and have looked at some of the websites for the various  SFI spec 38.1 type head and neck restraint systems.  Having not actually handled the products yet, I'm not sure how they are going to impact my car.

Both drivers are 6' tall.  And both of us have to bend our necks considerably to get into the car.  (Getting out is a different story if you are just diving out of the car.)  For those of you not familiar with the car, it's a 1971 Honda 600 Coupe - very very small car.

Am I going to need to modify my roll cage to make it easier to get into the car with out bending your neck, or can these devices be locked into place one you are in the car?

[dbradley]

Since someone asked.  Found this:

The HANS device was designed by Robert Hubbard who is a Professor of Engineering at Michigan State University. His inspiration and partner is Jim Downing a veteran endurance racer from IMSA and the American LeMans racing series who just happen's to be Hubbard's brother-in-law. Wearing the device has been made mandatory in Formula 1, CART and NASCAR . Where it is not mandated, it is recommended. The device should be matched to the type of car driven, as the driving position in an Indy Car is much different than in a stock car. Different sizes of the device are available, including a children's size for kart racers.

[interested bystander]

This topic has been bandied about for a while on previous threads.

I've just quickly passed over the comments so if I've missed the point of all this, forgive me, but  I have ONE comment to make: Jimmie Johnson  and Lewis Hamilton wear HANS devices.

 HANS makes laydown options, check out their website.

I, like EVERY non-pro racer, wish these devices were cheaper, but until they are it will probaly be inevitable that ALL sanctiony bodies require them, or similiar.

[Jerry O]

I have looked on the Hans site and I don't see anything that will work in my streamliner. The extreme laydown drawing they show still will not work for me. I worked on several indy car teams and have sat in most of the indy car types and they do not recline as much as my seat position does. In a indy car the drivers head is still in a upright position where the drivers neck is not bent as where in my car my head is bent forward to the point that my helmet touches my chest. So I am still looking and waiting for a system that will work for my application.