Modifications to the 2009 rules changes

[Sumner]

Sumner:
If you go to www.cp-racing.com and search" head restraint", and go to page 2 you will see what they sell as the Hutchens I device. They are a dealer for Safety Solutions products. The Hutchens I device it says is 38.1 compliant. It also appears to be the exact double of the D-cel that I am using. They even picture the Safety Solutions logo on the helmet. Am I seeing this all right? Doug

I'll be interested in what Safety Solutions says,

Sum

[DSR Bruts]

Just back from the PRi Show in Orlando.  I went to as many head restraint manufacturers as I could find....actually there weren't that many that I found, might have been more, but I didn't find them.  It was a large show plus I had 6 manufacturers there that I was working with....plus Optima full time.  Long week, but great attendance.

I am in no way trying to endorse any one of them as they all have great features and benefits.

Most of the Head Restraints are designed for pretty specific applications....i.e. Motorcycles, Karts, Road Racing, Circle Track Racing and fit many Racing Seats (i.e. 20 degree, 30 degree and so on).  The biggest challenge in restraint systems is not only front end impact, but side to side impact restraint and protection.  Also of a big concern is the amount of room you have in your car, style of seat, front to back and side to side protection.  Attachment of the system is also a concern.

I gave them this thread so they can not only monitor our discussions, but add information on the features and benefits of their products, so we can all make an educated decision on what system works best for each of our applications.  It will probably take a while for them to get on this forum and discuss things.  I am sure that there must be more manufacturers including Isaac and so on. 

At PRI I found:  Safety Solutions, Hans and Leatt Brace.  I went over and talked with each one in an effort to let them know that we need information and guidance on each of their brands and gave them the website information.

I was talking with several friends of mine...JR Granatelli (GMS), Scott Breakenridge (Innovate Motorsports) and Tom (G-Force Helmets).....BS group in front of Granatelli's booth..... and found more information that was interesting.  Scott's daughter runs 4 midget racers and is doing very well, and he refered me to Leatt Barce (originally from South Africa), which I had never heard of, but he thinks highly of it.  I found the booth, went over and told them that we race a street roadster at Bonneville and had 2 drivers with two different size necks and we were using a 20 degree (Kirkey) seat in our car.....he said no problem in a matter of minuites they can change their brace from one neck size to another and they had a 20 degree seat in the booth, so I could put one on and set in the seat.  They allowed me to put on their Moto R Brace w/Retail Price of $695.00 and sit in the seat.  It was fairly easy to put on, comfortable, left plenty of room in the back (my cage is extremely tight) and will work with my application.  It is 38.1 SFI certified and will work in a side impact as well as front impact....they had a running film of it being used in off road racing and the guy rolled the truck over several times, and in slow motion, it showed the drivers head movement.  It was also comfortable and you can move your head side to side with no problem.....you can find them at www.leattbrace.com.  This is in no way an endorsement of the Leatt Brace, but I was impressed with their system.  Also, no one had mentioned them.

Sum....we got a pretty good storm here tonight (7 degrees w/wind chill at 20 below)....hopefully see you tomorrow for lunch as you "slide" through town!  Any problems, call and I will come over and help.  I've got an inertia switch for both you and Geoff....let me know where we are meeting and a time...thanks!

 
 

[836dstr]

Bill,

Thanks for the info!

I went to the Leatt Brace website and watched the "Moto R fittment" video. It looks pretty well thought out. The adjustability seems straight forward. It appeared that the brace limited head movement fore and aft by contact of the helmet with the brace. They talked about a "SSS" cord that attached to the helmet straps and then the seat or cage. Wasn't to clear on that part. Any input?

Thanks,

Tom

[hbennett]

Hello everyone. I spoke with DSR Bruts at the PRI show and he asked me to check this forum to see if I can help answer technical questions.

First, the only SFI certified HNR's on the market are the HANS Device, Safety Solutions Hybrid and R3 (all versions), Leatt-Brace and the new DefNder. No other device is SFI certified at this time, including the D-cel and Hutchens II Pro. I don't know a whole lot about the DefNder except the device seems pretty high in the area around the neck. Could be a fitment problem in some applications. Try one on in your car before you buy or go through a good dealer with a good return/exchange policy.

I will only discuss SFI certified devices as this seems to be the "law of the land" with a lot of sanctioning bodies. The HANS Device, SS Hybrid and SS R3 are all available in different angles to fit a large variety of applications. The L-B comes with a couple of different fitment pieces although I am not quite sure how one would be used in an extreme lay down position. I do know there were two at the NHRA nationals at Indy. Neither driver would use them after the first attempt because of comfort. I offered to fit them in trade for a HANS Device. One was a school (Indiana State, I believe) and the other was one of Tony Stewart's sprint car teams racing at Indy. The school declined since the device was donated to them. The sprint car team took me up on it. I don't know, the L-B may very well be comfortable for one of you. Again, try it before you buy it or use a dealer with a good return/exchange policy.

The HANS Device will work in most extreme laydown applications. It will also depend on the individual body type, just as with the other devices. Nobody make a "one size fits all" HNR. I read in one of the responses about a reference to NASCAR. NASCAR only certifies two devices: the HANS Device and the Hutchens Hybrid (not the X, Rage nor new Pro, although I expect the Pro to be submitted to NASCAR). NASCAR has one of the most intensive testing programs around. At the minimum, a HNR has to be SFI certified before NASCAR will consider it.

If anyone has a question about HNR's in general or the HANS Device specifically, I will be glad to help. If you would like, I can also be reached at hbennett@hansdevice.com.

Howard Bennett
HAN Performance

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Howard:

Thanks for posting on the Forum.  I appreciate -- as do the others in the group, I'm sure -- hearing from vendors of equipment that is of value and interest to us.  I expect you'll be seeing posts from a bunch of racers - asking a bunch of questions and seeing if they need to work your product into their race efforts. 

Welcome -- please feel free to stick around and stay up to date with us.

Regards --
Jon (the guy that owns the website)

[DSR Bruts]

Tom....the SSS is a white "nylon looking" cord that goes from side to side attaching just below the ears on the helmet and it goes through a loop that "snaps" in the back of the Leatt Brace.  It is designed to allow restraint in forward motion as well as allowing the driver to move his head side to side with additional restraint each way for protection from side impact.  It adds flexibility to prephriral motion.  I believe on the helmet that I tried on, it was mounted to the outside, but in the instructions it is mounted on the inside.  You might go to Leatt-Brace.com and look at the instructions, and it might be clearer....it is on Step 5.  I lost the contact email address I had with the Sales Manager, I will try to find it.  You can also ask questions on their website, which would be a good idea as I am not an expert

[Bob Drury]

I posted on the Leatt Brace about a year ago.  At that time Jack Dolan mentioned he might get a couple for his grandkids.  Someone might give him a ring and follow up.........Bob

[DSR Bruts]

Unfortunately due to my schedule at the PRI Show, I missed a brand new Neck Restraint that was introduced at the show.  It is called the defNder and can be found at defNder.com and you can contact them at info@defNder.com.  Webstite has some great information and gives a revolving view of the restraint system and its features and benefits.

[dwarner]

This is a preliminary report from Roy Creel since his return from PRI;

"I had the opportunity at the recent show to attend an excellent  seminar with Dr. John Melvine, the top guy doing crash research for over 37 years. In addition, Along with much discussion at the SFI meetings, I sought out and met with all of the current restraint Mfgs.  There  are currently 4 Mfgs. that meet SFI specs.They are :

Hans- They make  a max. 40 deg recline model; not enough for laydown cars

Safety Solutions (several models, : hutchens, R-2 , etc. ) I bought another one myself for laydown use and I will try. So did Matt Williams.  they seem to be the only one likely to accomodate small laydown cars.

Defender: In Santee, Ca. He seems promising, DJ carrys it , I hope to send someone to their factory to try in small laydown cars. They are willing to make a modified version to accomodate us.

Leatt - A hard rubber  neck collar type, good only for sitting position.

The  Issacs and G force companys  have given up. G force no longer markets theirs and  Isaccs wasn't at the show; SFI says they never came back. Caution, I would not  buy one that is not SFI spec. You risk hurting yourself worse. Don't shop by price ! Consider only the fit, application to your car, comfort and performance of the device."

More to follow,

DW

[836dstr]

Dan/Roy,

I live just a couple of miles from Santee and would be glad to help in any way I can. SDRC has several members with Belly tanks and streamliners in this area that I'm sure would be interested.

I'll see if I can find to contact info on the Defender people.

Tom

[836dstr]

Dan,

I checked on-line for "Defender" and just got a lot of video games. Also looked in the Yellow pages and no listings. Is "Defender" just the product name and not the Manufacturer?

I'll call Rick @ Autopower and see if he knows them.

Tom

[4-barrel Mike]

http://www.defnder.com/

Mike

[836dstr]

Thanks Mike,

I thouight "Defnder" was a typo. So much for second guessing.

Tom

[gbaker]

This is a preliminary report from Roy Creel since his return from PRI;

"The  Issacs and G force companys  have given up...."

More to follow,

DW

With all due respect to Mr. Creel, if anyone wants to know what Isaac is up to they should ask Isaac, not SFI.  Or, they can just Google "head and neck restraint."

During PRI we were at Delphi Safety Systems conducting SFI tests on a new design.  It exceeded all industry standards and, in one configuration, outperformed the HANS device.  It will soon be available at a cost under $200.

Because the SFI design does not retain the belts in side impacts, we have chosen RSI certification.

(http://racingsafetyinstitute.org/Head%20and%20Neck%20Restraints.html)

[dwarner]

Gregg,

Thank you for your instructive input. I will pass this on to Roy. I would like to explore your products in more depth. Will we be able to contact you directly at your address?

Thank you for posting,
Dan