Motorcycle Streamliner Frame Dimension Changes

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Okay, I'll jump in (since that's the term du jour).  First of all, if I know/knew anything of the details that led to Cliff Gullett's death I would not, out of respect to him and his family, not comment.  Second - I wouldn't comment until the knowledge until it is in the public domain -- anything I know/knew now would be only hearsay, and it's not my way to talkwithout having some references with which to back up my stories.

Then to the SCTA/BNI -- remembering that the Gullett accident happened at a meet organized by Bub's, it's obvious that the SCTA/BNI shouldn't "jump in" with their opinions.  If they determine there's something learned from the incident that they feel is worthy of their official contemplation I expect they'll do it.  Will they tell us what's what?  I would be amazed if they did not -- as long as it's something that can positively result in making land speed racing safer for one and all.

And as to the comment that this website is gossip or whatever -- hey, I didn't hear it from anyone on the board.  I heard it here on this site, so I guess in one way it's right -- it is definitely gossip.  I am doing my best to work WITH the SCTA and BNI to present good information as well as a site where we can easily interact with one another.  That's not, it appears, what www.scta-bni.org is set up to do, so there's always going to be a difference between the sites.  Do SCTA or BNI board members look at this site?  I suppose I could use the magic control panel that I've (as the head handlebar holder of the site) got and look up just who's registered, but I'll instead reflect upon the comments I've heard (on and off line) from SCTA and BNI board members.  I know what one (or more) of them have told me, and I'm satisfied that I'm presiding over a service that they can and do utilise.

There -- is that direct yet vague enough for you?  Gossip away, talk away -- do everything you folks are already doing.  It's just what I want this site to do.  Thanks to all of you.

[panic]

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[willieworld]

panic---im fairly new to landracing and dont know the history of the roll cage on streamliners but being a chassis builder i can take  a SWAG--since the beginning the rules for the motorcycle (streamliner) have been as they are now---i will admit that the first time i read the roll cage rules my first thought was that 1 1/4 o.d. .090 nominal wall was a little on the small side considering that the car cage minimums were 1 5/8 o.d  .120 nominal wall and the speeds for bike and car  were comparable--then i started thinking of the differences --cars have 4 wheels--cars have motors and transmissions that weigh 700 to 1000 lbs--rearends that weigh 200 lbs and some cars weigh over 5000 lbs--even some roadsters can weigh as much as a pickup truck---motorcycle streamliners probably most that race scta event around 1000 lbs or maybe less even with the driver--this is just my opinion but it doesnt matter what size your roll cage tubing is --there are  certain type of impacts that the human body can not withstand --look at it like this a skydivers chute doesnt open he hits the ground at terminal velocity (about 120 mph) will he survive not likely if he had a roll cage made of 4 in od .250 wall steel tube would he survive not likely --its not the speed its the type of impact------------just some thoughts----------------willie buchta

let me add too--that the roll cage is designed so that your vehicle wont cave in on you --not for protection in an impact--what will protect you in an impact is all of your other safety equipment------------

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  My questions are still unanswered concerning: what a frame is with respect to a M/C Streamliner. Yes, I  too read the rules about "shall be of sufficient strength to resist flex and twist" (for cars) and "all componets shall have sufficient strength to ensure stability and safety" (M/C). Seams kind of ambiguous. All I'm looking for is some input and direction from someone with authority in the SCTA/BNI to answer my questions so I can build my streamliner. At the least, I would hope they would post something on  www.scta-bni.org that would confirm they are considering new frame rules and a little "hint" what they think these new rules may lead to. 

"A little information starts rumors..."
"Too much information is dangerous..."
The wrong information is deadly!"
me

I wonder if the "sidecar" frame will fall under the potential new rules. After all, it is a "frame" and it does have a wheel.
"Sidecar definition: An inherently unstable device able to stand on it's own"

Terry

[John Noonan]

All I'm looking for is some input and direction from someone with authority in the SCTA/BNI to answer my questions so I can build my streamliner. :

Terry,

Have you either called or emailed an official from the SCTA MC rules committee on this?  If so what was the official answer..?

J

[willieworld]

sorry terry i cant answer your questions we will all have to wait until the new rule book comes out --i got my 08 rulebook at the gear grinders banquet in march of 08--i symphathize with you im in the middle of 2 projects that could be effected--------willie buchta

[panic]

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[panic]

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[willieworld]

panic---thats why i ride an open bike--its much safer--there are no frame tube rules--in an "upset" im in charge and dont have to rely on some rule maker that didnt have a clue about metal tube construction---on the other hand-if everyone has read the rule book in the very beginning it says --page 1 NOTICE---page 6 NOTICE--i would suggest that everyone read and understand all of this before starting a project--

willie-waiting on the rule change-buchta

[1212FBGS]

willie that’s a pretty poor assumption on your part that the "rule Makers" don’t have a clue about metal tube construction.... were so glad you started in the sport 2 years ago... now you can tell us how we’ve been doing it wrong the past 60 years...

Terry I could be wrong but wasn’t your first post about a conversation YOU had with a SCTA official.?.... my advise for you is to continue a conversation with the same official... you would probably be more informed instead of wasting your time sturing up a pot of unknowing gossip forum experts...unless that’s what you were after instead of really wanting the official answer…
Kent

[willieworld]

i didnt assume anything thats why im 63 and do what i do --if you trust your life and safety to someone else you cant blame them when things go bad------------willie buchta

let me just add this and ill go away--i dont think any racing body can ever "get it right" --speeds will increase--tires and materials and technology will change and usually faster than the rules--no ones fault there was no need for an lsr tire in the beginning and probibly no need for a roll cage or a full face helmet ---things change and so do the rules --landracing has been here for 70 odd years ---when you think you "got it right" your only fooling yourself into a false security-----just some thoughts ----willie--waiting for the rule changes--buchta

[panic]

Sorry, this was not appropriate. The people I wished to address do not read my comments, so I have removed.
I apologize for interrupting the discussion.

[Glen]

Panik, Who are you, what is your background in motor sports, are you building or have you built a land speed vehicle of any kind? I am just wondering. The other thing is and it has been requested by The SCTA rules committee have ask that questions be directed to them at www.scta-bni.org. to the rules section on the lower left side of the web page. This is so rumors don't get started and they have the record of conversation at the board and rules meetings.

I am trying to judge you or anyone else with their input or ideas. I have sat in on many meetings over the years and have seen questions that were 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand submitted to the board and not what the originator had wanted. Every question should be put in clear and to the point writing to the committee so there is no question. Verbal and phone messages or e-mail from other sights are not generally accepted.
Use the forms provided by SCTA.

[sockjohn]

1.250 x 0.090 wall for a 350mph bike liner  vs. 1.625 x 0.120 for 350 mph car liner.

If i was building a bike liner it would be of the car spec tubing

There's a possible mc tire rule on the horizon as well.

Just like with house building codes, minimum requirements are just that, the minimum required. 

Tire rule for sit on m/c or just m/c streamliners?

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  Thanks Kent. Yes my conversation was with Van Butler m/c rules committee. I'll continue an open dialog and post whatever information on this thread so others may be informed. BUT... it might be a good idea if others got the information "First Hand" right from SCTA.
My original post was to let everyone know basically what I had just found out through conversation with Van (I originally posed a tire question about using a Dunlap Kart tire for my conventional sidecar).
I have never asked a question using the SCTA/BNI website, my questions have always been via phone or email, first to Russ O and now to Van B. I'll try the SCTA website.

Terry