"The Course"

[Richard Thomason]

New topic-maybe will stir some controversy, maybe not. What is so sacred about a 5-mile course. My 1978 rulebook defines the course as  "I-5 The straitaway speed course, conditions permitting, will be an approach of two miles from the starting line to the four timing traps placed as follows: One trap timing the first quarter mile of the third mile, one trap timing the full third mile, one trap timing the full fourth mile, and one trap timing the full fifth mile. If and when conditions permit, cars which have previously qualified faster than 225 mph may be granted a longer course." The reason for bringing this up is the current idea that no SCTA record can be set on a course longer than 5 miles. 1978 rules allow a course longer than 5 miles, and I know that there have been records certified that were set on a course longer than 5 miles. Things change, and am looking for the time that the "Save the Salt" project will give us consistently longer courses. If available, I think we should use it.
 rht

[Richard Thomason]

I guess I should have added that only BNI Int'l records could be set on a course longer than 5 miles. It appears that no national records can be set on a course that exceeds 5 miles. Sorry about the misstatement on my part.
 rht

[RichFox]

Like you I have seen times when salt permiting Al and Nolan and I think Don Vesco were allowed to start from the -1. So the 5 mile course is not sacered. Didn't they do that at the World Finals this year?. Still there needs to be some limit on how much salt is going to be dragged. How many patrols are going to be out. How far can the safety vechicals travel. Who is going to step up and pay for the other safety people farther on down? The patrols for another couple of miles? I know. The 'liner guys. I don't need them.

[Glen]

The only time that the vehicles were allowed to run on extended courses were for FIA or BNI internal and BNI world records. This has not been done on normal SCTA-BNI normal records at the Speedweek events.
 Glen

[ddahlgren]

Funny i though in 91 when Al went 409 he started from the -2..Along with some other cars around 4:30 in the afternoon..
 Dave Dahlgren

[Glen]

Dave
 As I recall Al did not set a record at the meet but was allowed to make a pass to see what kind of speed he could achieve. It was not for a record attempt. As a courtisy Al was allowed to run after the meet was over.

[landracing]

Glen,
 
 I think there were others who were allowed to start at the -2 that year. Then there were some fast cars that asked to do the same and were denied. And that my friend is first hand information.
 
 Jonathan

[Richard Thomason]

To Rich Fox-as a "liner guy" thanks, I think we all have to work together. Don't know what you run but we are all trying to set records. Let's don't separate by types of cars, rather let's accomodate all.
 rht

[JackD]

I don't remember the exact year, however, the last time Guthrie drove our liner for a BNI only record we were allowed to start from the highway. Scott and I both have a video tape that shows Richard Thomason, Ken Walkey and our liner and as I recall Mike Cook with his Thunderbird didn't want to run that far and started at from a point a mile ahead of us. This was not for FIA or anything else but Speedweek records. The limitations of the 5 mile are based on the desire of the Board. Al's 409 average during Speedweek was recognized as a BNI and FIA record. The down run used all the salt that was available from the highway and the return run used 1/4 of a mile extra that was prepared prior to the meet for Dave Campos and the motorcycle streamliner. Al backed up onto the 1/4 mile narrow alignment used for the motorcycle and moved over to the parallel Speedweek course while under way. There is a long history of vehicles using all of the salt that is available when allowed.
 I was with Nolan White at a Board meeting when a current Board member with considerable influence told him that BNI should not recognize any records set with a travel distance greater than 5 miles.

[Richard Thomason]

Glen-sorry-there were several times that cars backed up to the -2 and ran for national records.I remember starting on the edge of the freeway, and blasting through the starting line and the Japanese motorhome crossing directly in front of me. I have audio tape of you screaming on the radio to get them out of there. Anyway, the point is that in the future, if the course is available, let's use it. This is not a drag race for a set distance, this is all out land speed racing. To Rich Fox again I say, why is 5 miles sacred. If it works for you great, if some one else can go faster in a longer distance then great again. When we sign up, and pay our money, do we say that it is for a set lenght of course? Trust me, faster cars, will have their own people down course, and be prepared for things. Don't think that the expense is greater, other than preparing the course. And if we are racing for only 5 miles, then let's say that rather then trying to promote ourselves as the ultimate land speed venue.
 rht

[Richard Thomason]

Jack-just got your post. Good on, you are exactly right.
 rht

[JackD]

It sounds like some will be racing for the Limited Speed Record.
 My hero that year was the guy that drove the hard tired fork lift with the battery change for the panasonic liner 10 miles down course only to return everytime it didn't run.
 I suspect it was their high tech, expensive traction control that caused it not to move.
 I have never seen so much money spent on a Speedweek project.
 I remember waiting by the highway for them to run from the 0 and the popular theory was that if the DC powered car was built on the other side of the world in Japan it might want to run backwards when it came over here.
 I guess we will never know. We suggested a 4 speed knife switch would better suit their needs.
 The "IRON MAN" Award goes to the fork lift guy.

[DallasV]

Hello all, I have some recollection of running the long course back in the day. I remember when my father got into the 2 club in 1975 the course was 9 miles on the old Hot Rod / International course. But it was no different than running on a 7 mile course now because the records had to be set in the same geographical mile. So their fastest mile would generally be between the 4 and the 5 mile. When they returned starting from the 9 mile they would run 9,8,7,6 and the record mile would be between the 5 and the 4. i.e. the same geographical mile. So regardless of the 9 miles it was still a 4 mile approach to the mile the records were set in. when the salt started to diminish the course was changed to 7 miles and records could be set in the same relative mile i.e. the 3 measured mile going down and the third measured mile coming back. So it is true that the course was longer but the approach is the same. FYI , back when they ran the 9 mile course, 2 runs would not get you a record it took 3. Your first run qualified you and you could work on the car all night if you wanted to but your qualifying pass had nothing to do with the record. The next morning you would run down get 1 hour to work on the car and then run back for an average. It was a lot tougher then I got my first record that way and I?m sure a lot of you remember those days.
 
 Dallas
 
 P.S. Jon the site looks great.

[dwarner]

My hero that year was the guy that drove the hard tired fork lift with the battery change for the panasonic liner 10 miles down course only to return everytime it didn't run.
 I suspect it was their high tech, expensive traction control that caused it not to move.
 ********************************************
 
 I think the guy standing on the extension cord that ran out to about 100' was the problem. I too award the 'Iron Man' award to the forklift driver.
 They gave away all the batteries at the end of the
 meet. Some guys took home a 1/2 dozen or more.
 
 Dan

[landracing]

The liner you are refering too was the Kenwood electric car. The car actually only went about 80 ft. It was real wet conditions when they arrived. It was a an electic bullet train motor. I remember they used a crane to get the car off the trailer. And left tons of batteries.
 When the car returned to Japan the owner, was looked down on and dissapeared from existance there. The company went belly up. From speaking to other people from Japan, they said he was so far in debt from that project and it didn't do anything. They said he was way over his head from the project. I think they must have brought 40 people over for that project and it was a bust. Most stayed at the KOA as we did that year, 1992.
 
 I was 16 years old that year, and I remember trading a pack of cigs for a pack of Japanese cigarettes. Got a little drunk with one of the engineers from the project and he drew a complete picture of the car on a napkin and I was so excited, wish I would have kept that, but I was too young to know beter.
 
 There was an article in one of the programs about the car.
 
 Jonathan
 
  <small>[ November 29, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: JonAmo ]</small>