Black Rock Desert Nevada

[Freud]

As technology allows better LSR cars to be built, it seems to me that fewer and fewer realistic courses exist that are adequate for the speeds that will be capable with these new cars.
Bonneville's good years don't happen as frequently as they did prior to 1970 and with the limited length that is generally available, it will be a major challenge to find adequate courses.
Even in Australia, with their extra length, challenges occur. Access to B'ville is a dream as compared to Lake Gairdner. Flooding can be a problem and access to a hospital is a long ways away.

The current crop of streamliners under construction will benefit from 4 wheel drive and that will help with acceleration but stopping can still be a problem with short courses.

WOW !  If it was easy, everyone would run over 500 MPH.

FREUD

[racergeo]

   Malcolm, perhaps you could send your fellow countryman Ratliff on an extensive search of the desert S.W.

[Robin UK]

Hi Malcolm,

I have a couple of contacts in Gerlach if you're interested, although I'm guessing you'd prefer somebody with a racing background.

I agree with Eric about the way the desert has changed.  I've been many, many times (first visit 1994, last visit 2007) and can tell you that it is nowhere near the condition in was in when we ran SSC there in 97. The surface was always so good because it flooded every year and was then washed flat by the heat and wind - effectively renewing the surface every year. For those who asked, the preparation for SSC was line marking and then walking every inch of every 14 mile track to collect fod - nothing larger than a fingernail to be ignored! Dragging was never considered because it was not needed.

In the years since 97, the pattern of weather has changed with very little or no rain some years and major floods the next. Even Bev's place in Gerlach was flooded a couple of years ago. All the conditions Eric describes were as I remember them at my last visit. All brought about I guess by the changed weather patterns affecting the 'renewable' nature of the surface. I have a picture somewhere which I'll try to post taken from high up in a hot air balloon. From the ground, the desert just looked the same even colour and texture but from the air (even back in the 'good old days' of 94) the multi colouring clearly shows a surface drier in some parts than others. You can even trace the routes of underground streams flowing from the surrounding mountains.

Since you mentioned speeds of up to 500mph we seem to have assumed that you are talking about a wheel driven vehicle? If so, I'm surprised given the additional rolling drag penalty from running on dirt. I know many Bonneville cars run at El Mirage but as far as I'm aware only Nolan White ever did back to back tests between Bonneville and BR. His conclusion was that the drag penalty was too high.

Robin

[Robin UK]

   Malcolm, perhaps you could send your fellow countryman Ratliff on an extensive search of the desert S.W.

I'm sure he'll confirm one way or the other but I thought FR was one of yours.

[Malcolm UK]

I thought Franklin was from the USA too.

[Ratliff]

Hi Malcolm,

I have a couple of contacts in Gerlach if you're interested, although I'm guessing you'd prefer somebody with a racing background.

I agree with Eric about the way the desert has changed.  I've been many, many times (first visit 1994, last visit 2007) and can tell you that it is nowhere near the condition in was in when we ran SSC there in 97. The surface was always so good because it flooded every year and was then washed flat by the heat and wind - effectively renewing the surface every year. For those who asked, the preparation for SSC was line marking and then walking every inch of every 14 mile track to collect fod - nothing larger than a fingernail to be ignored! Dragging was never considered because it was not needed.

In the years since 97, the pattern of weather has changed with very little or no rain some years and major floods the next. Even Bev's place in Gerlach was flooded a couple of years ago. All the conditions Eric describes were as I remember them at my last visit. All brought about I guess by the changed weather patterns affecting the 'renewable' nature of the surface. I have a picture somewhere which I'll try to post taken from high up in a hot air balloon. From the ground, the desert just looked the same even colour and texture but from the air (even back in the 'good old days' of 94) the multi colouring clearly shows a surface drier in some parts than others. You can even trace the routes of underground streams flowing from the surrounding mountains.

Since you mentioned speeds of up to 500mph we seem to have assumed that you are talking about a wheel driven vehicle? If so, I'm surprised given the additional rolling drag penalty from running on dirt. I know many Bonneville cars run at El Mirage but as far as I'm aware only Nolan White ever did back to back tests between Bonneville and BR. His conclusion was that the drag penalty was too high.

Robin

Speeds up to 500 mph could also mean going after the Pollution Packer and Conklin Comet standing start records as well as establishing a standing start mile record.

[Pinacate]

I'm back from Burning Man. The surface of the dry lake bed is much better this year.  Last year it had the pocked appearance of a giant golf ball and looked inappropriate for fast driving. This year it was MUCH smoother, the surface looked globally flat, with "frost  heaves" superimposed. These "frost heaves" are maybe an inch tall and wide, and occur every few feet. They disappear with foot traffic, but I don't know how well a race car will roll over them at speed.

Weather was tough, with sand storms every day starting by noon (sometimes by 10 am) lasting off and on until a couple hours after sunset.

Note that Burning Man covers less than 4 square miles of the lake bed, out of about 400 square miles, so conditions could be different in other areas of the lake bed. The rest of the lake  bed is off limits to the burners (patrolled 24 hours by BLM rangers and internal security).

[F104A]

We took the NAE out to Black Rock from July 5 to 11 and conducted 4 runs. On the NW end of the
lakebed there were allot of heaves that prevented us from running there at all. We looked over
the NE section but it was to soft. We ultimately picked a 3.5 mile segment from about the
3 mile road across toward the frog pond at a heading of about 45 degrees. It was not very good
so after two runs we moved back to the NE section where we found a good 4.25 miles. We were
able to make a couple runs in the 350 mph range but just not good enough or long enough to
push it any faster. I'm going back down to the lakebed in a couple weeks to see if more dirt
is useable further up the NE section which was to soft to run on in July.
Both Andy Green and I have surveyed Diamond Valley, an alkili lakebed about 50 miles South
of Elko. There is 12 miles of very smooth surface. The problem is, you would have to build
your own road over a mile of puckerbrush and dunes to get the equipment onto the lakebed.
To get onto the lakebed from the nearest gravel road was a mile long drive on a jeep trail.
The nearest town to get supplies is Empire, about 40 miles away. Pretty tough deal.

[LVMAXX]

 









 

[Rex Schimmer]

If you look at the Diamond Valley on Google Earth it is almost 17 miles end to end and there is a fair amount of agriculture on the south end plus some mining operations so it is not "moon scape" desolate. If a trail or desert road already exist that goes to the lake bed, and there looks like several are there, I would think that the BLM would not have a problem if some one "improved" them by grading, but of course you would have to get the BLM's approval on what ever you would want to do there.

Rex

[LVMAXX]

 

[Rex Schimmer]

Try these coordinates:

40.000.76 and 115.57 36 7

Got these from Google Earth.

Rex

[wobblywalrus]

We drove by Honey Lake in northeastern California this summer.  The lake has receded and there is a lot of playa.  The access there is excellent.  Susanville and US395 are close.  I am not real familiar with the lake, but possibly another member of this forum is.     

[F104A]

When I spoke with the BLM folks a few weeks ago, they sounded willing to work with us on building a road into the lakebed. The shortest entrance on the lakebed is along the West side. Fossett had already paid
for an environmental study and the BLM had no problems with endangered species or historical crossings
that needed protection. If we can get a road built into the lakebed, it woud be a good surface to run on.

[LVMAXX]