Author Topic: CB Radios  (Read 8318 times)

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Offline Bville701

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CB Radios
« on: July 17, 2008, 11:40:43 PM »
How can you tell how far a CB radio is suppose to transmit? Is it by wattage? What is a decent CB radio brand for a decent price? Can anyone help shine some light on this subject please?

Thanks
Ryan LeFevers

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Offline isiahstites

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 11:46:03 PM »
I have heard talks off them doing away with the hand-helds that cannot transmit the length of the course. You can pick up a decent one at Radio Shack for around $40 for the radio and around $20 for a magnetic antenna.

Scott

Offline Bville701

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 11:57:46 PM »
Thanks Isiah, I will take a look at Radio Shack.

Do you or anyone else know if the radio power at the Salt is stronger than the power at Elmo?

The reason I am asking is because I have a CB already, but I only can hear as far as the paved road at Elmo. I haven't taken my CB to the salt yet and was wondering if it would make a difference? I don't want to have to buy a new CB if I don't have to.

Thanks again for the help.
Ryan LeFevers

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 12:08:58 AM »
Maximum wattage for CB is 4 watts, and most CB radios are built out to the maximum.  The distance it carries is dependant on the quality of the audio signal, the antenna, reflective surfaces (mountains come to mind), weather and atmospheric conditions.  I have no idea what would work best on the salt on a hot, dry day.
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Offline Bville701

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 12:23:58 AM »
Thanks Mil

My CB Radio is 4 watts, so that makes me feel better.

If anyone else has more info, please feel free to let me know. I would appreciate all of the knowledge I can get.

Thanks for all the help and knowledge in advance.
Ryan LeFevers

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Offline V8Pinto

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 01:54:47 AM »
What type of antenna do you have?  How long is the element and (more importantly) how is it mounted?  Is there anything blocking the antenna?

Since all CB's are (stock) limited to 4 watts, all your distance is going to be in the antenna.  If you want really good distance for the money and don't want to run a big whip, go with a Wilson 1000 magnet mount in the middle of the top of the cab. 

I run a K30 which isn't as good as the wilson (mine is 36" element where the Wilson is IIRC a 5ft).  I can still transmit/receive all over the salt (last year leaving the salt at land's end I was still talking to the pits).  At El Mirage I receive to the paved road no problem but transmit isn't so great from there to the starting line.

On my 4Runner I run a 102" stainless whip and receive 20 miles or so.  Transmit is usually around 4-8 miles and sometimes up to 15.  The magnet mounts get out about 5-6 miles. 

Make sure you set the SWR.
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 09:19:14 AM »
Our CB is dash-mounted and a plain ol' brand-name something-or-other (brand isn't all that important since they all make the same power, etc).  Radio Shack is fine, so is Cobra, and so on.  The antenna is far more important, and like so many things in life, bigger IS better.  The radio must "see" an antenna that's a quarter wavelength long -- there's your 102".  Because lots of folks want a smaller antenna the manufacturers put in loading coils (the lump in the bottom or middle or top or wherever) to make the effective length correct.  But -- the coil isn't nearly as effective a radiator as a full-length wire, so coils lose some of that 4 watts -- that's why shorter antennas don't work as well (usually) as full-length ones.

But also make sure your ground system is above reproach.  Good grounds are vital -- the radio signal needs the full circuit, just like the starter motor and the gauges on your race vehicle.  This may be one big reason why our setup -- a bottom-loaded antenna, about 4' long, permanently mounted (with hole drilled in the metal!) in the center of the roof works well -- better than the same antenna might if it were on a magnet mount.  I usually hear the CB from the Salt while I'm still at the motel in Wendover.  I can talk to the race track by the time I'm on I-80 -- just past Car Quest.

Finally -- SWR = Standing Wave Ratio.  It's a measure of how much power is being "reflected" back from the antenna to the output stage of the transmitter.  Setting it requires use of an SWR "bridge" - a measuring device that most folks don't own, but most radio shops DO have.  I've got one -- and keep thinking about taking it to the Salt to lend to folks, except I'd probably end up spending the best part of the week checking and setting SWR.  Anyway - you want your SWR to be as low as possible.  Anything under 3 to 1 is acceptable, and the closer to 1:1 you can get, the better.  SWR changes with frequency of the transmitter -- that is, it'll read differently on Ch.23 than it does on Ch. 1, so set the SWR to minimum on or near (don't cause interference to others by tuning and testing on the channel that's in use) your chosen frequency (at Bonneville it's Ch. 1 and Ch. 10 as a secondary channel).  The SWR is changed by adjusting the length of the antenna -- kinda hard to do if you want to make the antenna longer, so it's common to have a few clips or bobby pins handy to put on the very tip of the antenna during testing.  Shortening the rod is easy -- but hard to make long again if you cut too much off.

There's your quick primer to SWR and other CB stuff.  (I've been a radio ham for 43 years -- have played with antennas and SWR for all of those years).
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline thundersalt

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 10:36:47 AM »
10-4 good buddy, we just have a cheap radio shack special with mag mt antenna about 48" long. It's wired to a 12 VDC plug for the cig lighter. We always get reception around the salt flat cafe. We even get good reception for about 5 miles each side of winnamucca and talk to the "girls" trolling for truckers on the radio.
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Offline Glen

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 10:59:17 AM »
One of the big problems is they (crews) squelch the CB down to get rid of the hash or noise. This prevents the signal from getting through to the CB. The CB in the timing trailer has the antenna about 30 feet in the air. I can pick it up miles away and have talked to it any where on the salt.

Don't place the mic on the vehicle seat as the key can be tripped and all signal is lost for everyone. Yes it happens several times each year.
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Offline Bville701

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 11:16:19 PM »
Thanks to all for the great information.

I have a 18" antenna right now, and it sounds like a bigger antenna could help. So, I think I will try that. I think I will also check the SWR (now that I know what that is).

Glen, I will keep the mic on the hook on the CB. Thanks for the advice. I remember open mics being very frustrating.

Thanks again to all.   :-D
Ryan LeFevers

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 01:35:09 AM »
OK, so I get a Radio Shack $60 CB, then a $25 102" antenna, and it should work pretty good right out of the box?

Here's a Stupid Question (I was busy with motorcycles when the CB craze hit in the late 70's) :

Will the antenna work horz or upside down?

I want to put on our motorhome, but that would mean it would hit overpasses.  So I could put it on a rotating mount, then just point it upward when I get to the event?  And hopefully remember to put it back down again... :D  Or just mount it horz permanently?

Offline iamflagman

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2008, 06:09:46 AM »
OK, so I get a Radio Shack $60 CB, then a $25 102" antenna, and it should work pretty good right out of the box?

Here's a Stupid Question (I was busy with motorcycles when the CB craze hit in the late 70's) :

Will the antenna work horz or upside down?

I want to put on our motorhome, but that would mean it would hit overpasses.  So I could put it on a rotating mount, then just point it upward when I get to the event?  And hopefully remember to put it back down again... :D  Or just mount it horz permanently?

I agree that a good antenna will greatly enhance the performance of a CB radio and here is what I do to the Wilson Antenna that I have mounted on the roof of my Blue Bird Wanderlodge, it is hooked up to my Galaxy DX99 AM/FM/SSB CB radio, this is a 10 meter radio converted for use in the 11 meter range http://www.roadtrucker.com/galaxy/galaxy-10-meter-radio-dx-99v.htm

Some people will tell you that the antenna mounted this way doesn't work, but my personal experience is it works just fine mounted this way for use while traveling, but to add more distance to my transmit all I have to do is remove the antenna tip from the Lexan holder and let it extend /standup to its full length and then remember to put it back down before I hit the road.



For a larger view go to http://www.pbase.com/iamflagman/image/37202640

The SWR is within the acceptable range mounted this way, but I set the SWR with the antenna fully extended for optimum performance. I like some of the others have been messing around with CB's since the days of the 3 crystal channels in a Johnson CB radios.

Here is a link to a website that will help explain further how mounting an antenna will affect its performance, check out http://www.signalengineering.com/ultimate/mobile_antennas.html
Be sure to also check out some of the other links at the left side of the web page.
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Offline Glen

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2008, 11:10:38 AM »
The Pilot station in West Wendover has CB radios , antennas, and other Accesories for CB radios etc. Prices are very good. They also have a retractable microphone system that keeps the mic off the seat. It connects to the mirror I have used one for about 5 years and it's easy to grab the mic.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 12:24:54 PM by Glen »
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Offline ol38y

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 01:30:08 PM »
The little mini bunji cords work very well for hanging your mike from the rear view mirror. Get one long enough to bring the mike to your mouth to talk , then just let it hang from the mirror when you're done. It's worked for me for years.

Larry   :-D
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: CB Radios
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 03:28:50 PM »
MCR, here's an answer to the horizontal/vertical question:  The radio waves are pretty much in one plane, so if you want to have best results, orient your antenna in the same plane as everyone else.  For CB that means vertical.  There's a difference of a few db (decibels, used in this case as a measure of signal strength) in a 90-degree difference, which won't make a heck of a big difference at the Salt -- but might if you were trying to work long-distance stations from the house.  Upside down is fine -- the same as right side up -- no difference, except it's hard to hold your motorhome upside down while on the radio.  For the sake of the discussion, most ham work is done with horizontal polarization, except much of the FM stuff on the VHF and higher frequencies -- where it's vertical.  One big reason for the differences is that it's difficult to build a vertical quarter-wave antenna that's long enough on the low frequencies - might have to be a hundred or two hundred feet tall, and if that tall the FAA will start getting cranky.

As for the antenna being bent/hooked down at the end, if it works -- it works.  There'd be some degradation of performance, but obviously not too much.  The SWR would be kind of goofy, but again -- it's working, so there's your real world proof that it works.

There are quite a few mobile antenna mounts that incorporate a release mechanism to allow folding down to get into the garage or under the wires or whatever.  They've got small levers or other locking devices to hold the antenna upright or in the down position.

And finally -- converting a 10-meter antenna to 11M  requires lengthening it, whether by more antenna rod or by adding loading coils or such.  I didn't follow the link to see how it's done in this example, but I do wonder how they made it longer.  (My computer at the house is on the fritz -- that's where I've got the time to look at all the links that get posted).
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