Author Topic: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety  (Read 14175 times)

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Ratliff

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Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« on: June 23, 2008, 10:42:47 AM »
1. Lew Arrington’s “Captain America” rocket Funny Car had a pair of big NACA ducts in the roof that fed air to exhaust slots located under the chute cans. Maybe nitro cars could benefit from the same idea.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4033.0.html

2. Could putting the chutes in cans and mounting the cans directly to the chassis like they’ve done on jet Funny Cars for 20+ years be a better approach than the way nitro cars are done?
3. How about adding a third chute and attaching the release cable directly to the body? Perhaps making that third chute a 16 foot ribbon chute?
4. Could it be long past time for both Top Fuel and Funny Car to upgrade to state of the art ribbon chutes?
5. Driver capsules. It seems to me if the car had been constructed in a way that when the body came off still provided Scott good visibility and protection from wind blast that might have helped. http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Dec%202001/SOD-121201.htm
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 11:07:22 AM by Ratliff »

Offline aircap

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 12:07:08 PM »
Seen the tape of the crash, Franklin? The rear half of the body came off when the engine exploded. Your NACA ducts would have gone bye-bye.

Also, according to NHRA rules, the chutes are to be mounted so that both open when the body comes off. They did so, and one burned off immediately.

Tapes show the front half of the body was still on - but we can't tell if it obscured his vision, or not.

I can't speak to the validity of new ribbon chutes, so I'll leave that to others.

The N.J. Highway Patrol & the NHRA are investigating the accident, and have concluded the car was airborne at approximately 250MPH over the sand trap (not sand at Englishtown, by the way), and hit the retaining wall, continuing over it and hitting the cab of the camera boom truck, coming to rest in the trees beyond the wall.

Here's a bird's eye view of the top end at Englishtown.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=458074&d=1214178791

I'm no expert, so that's all I've got to say concerning your suggestions. Thanks.

"Act your age, not your shoe size". - Prince

Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 12:12:57 PM »
Seen the tape of the crash, Franklin? The rear half of the body came off when the engine exploded. Your NACA ducts would have gone bye-bye.

Also, according to NHRA rules, the chutes are to be mounted so that both open when the body comes off. They did so, and one burned off immediately.

Tapes show the front half of the body was still on - but we can't tell if it obscured his vision, or not.

I can't speak to the validity of new ribbon chutes, so I'll leave that to others.

The N.J. Highway Patrol & the NHRA are investigating the accident, and have concluded the car was airborne at approximately 250MPH over the sand trap (not sand at Englishtown, by the way), and hit the retaining wall, continuing over it and hitting the cab of the camera boom truck, coming to rest in the trees beyond the wall.

Here's a bird's eye view of the top end at Englishtown.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=458074&d=1214178791

I'm no expert, so that's all I've got to say concerning your suggestions. Thanks.




My comments were directed toward several possible scenarios, not just the Kalitta crash, but it boils down to either get the cars stopped quicker, shorten the racing distance, or lengthen the track.

I also think if nitro Funny Cars had canard wings like ones Lew Arrington later installed on his car, so that they didn't instantly lose all downforce when the body came off, that might help too.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:18:52 PM by Ratliff »

Offline Grant Borman

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 07:26:21 PM »
As somone who has actually mounted a funny car body i have to say that i do not feel like this accident was a result of a failure of the body but more a failure of the track IMO.  Yes i will agree that there are some changes that could be made to the body/chassis but i feel that in the situation they would not have helped as much as just plain old lengthening the track and having a better barrier at the end.  Maybe some sort of foam/sand barrier instead of level sand with a net followed by what looked like a concrete retaining wall.


Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2008, 07:38:36 PM »
Attached is an article and photo showing how the canard wing installation was done on Lew Arrington's car (photo courtesy Dick Keller).

Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 07:42:48 PM »
As somone who has actually mounted a funny car body i have to say that i do not feel like this accident was a result of a failure of the body but more a failure of the track IMO.  Yes i will agree that there are some changes that could be made to the body/chassis but i feel that in the situation they would not have helped as much as just plain old lengthening the track and having a better barrier at the end.  Maybe some sort of foam/sand barrier instead of level sand with a net followed by what looked like a concrete retaining wall.



I think it was a track problem too. I also think in general, despite two fatalities in one year and Force's near miss, that Funny Car remains safer than Top Fuel.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 08:02:10 PM »
I noted that in the aftermath of the Kalitta crash, both Cruz Pedregon and Jim Head spoke out advocating moving the traps back to 1000 feet. As I understand it, current cars hit an aero wall at about that point, anyhow, so trap speeds wouldn't get much slower, if at all.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 08:03:45 PM by tortoise »

Super Kaz

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 09:25:04 PM »
I noted that in the aftermath of the Kalitta crash, both Cruz Pedregon and Jim Head spoke out advocating moving the traps back to 1000 feet. As I understand it, current cars hit an aero wall at about that point, anyhow, so trap speeds wouldn't get much slower, if at all.

 Having started out Drag Racing My Heart Goes Out To The KALITTA Family :cry:!
 Everyone{Pro Drag Racer} knows How Scary the BIG END IS ON THAT TRACK :-(!

It's Heart Breaking that it's takes such   TERRIBLE TRAGEDY'S Like-{NASCAR 's ,Dale Earn hart SR.,and Adam Petty's - Basil Fracture :x} NASCAR with allot of Pressure and Death Threats on SIMPSON'S owner the HAN'S Devise ,and Many Other Versions along with FULL FACE HELMETS and Safer Barriers have made a 100%-150% SAFETY Increase in Racer's Safety in those areas 8-)!

Now in The HRA the speeds have increase by over 100mph+ at that track and the shut down area has not lengthened ??? SINCE THEY BUILT IT?

Then there's Florida's Gainsville,Gator Nationals{Eric Medlin's LAST RIDE} is another SCARY TOP END TRACK with a Lake and No Light's at the end {More then 1 racer was found Dead at the Bottom of the Lake/Pond when he never made it back home that Night :x!

 I've been Blessed to have THE BEST NHRA DRAG STIP EverBuilt  in my Back yard{The STRIP@LVMS.com},but I have seen more then 1 Track that I was really scared racing my NMRA SS/O 1600+Turbo ,small 10inch tired,stock suspension ,Mustang Race Car :|!

 You can have the  Best Track and have Problems and you can have the worst track,and be just fine :?!

 I believe in{When My Number's called it won't matter what I'm doing} ,but I have the Best SAFETY EQUIPMENT POSSIBLE,AND HAVE LEARNED FROM THE BEST in whatever I RACE :mrgreen:!

GODSPEED SCOTT,AND FAMILY!

DO A LITTLE GOGGLE SEARCH on what his Father Connie Kallitta is doing with his AIRLINE " bring ALL our Fallen Soldier Back home from the War no cost tot he families!

My Heart goes out to the whole RACING FAMILY !

We are more then just  a sport were a Lifestyle and no matter what kind of racing we do we are a Great Big Family CONNECT more was then just racing

We will get through this terrible Loss and God Willing Prevent such terrible accidents from ever happening again :cry: :cry:



Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 04:31:23 PM »
http://www.dragracingonline.com/burksblast/x_6-3.html

Jeff Burk made some very persuasive arguments for limiting to one-eigthth mile cars that run faster than 210 mph in the quarter.

Offline racergeo

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 07:59:23 PM »
     I don't agree with 1/8th mile. First off the grand stands at the better facilities are at least 1000'. Second NHRA divisional tracks can have some pretty short shut down areas and 270mph A-fuelers arn't crashing off the end all the time! I think it was JIM Head who mentioned how much faster 30mph is at the traps.(the speed gained from 1000' to the 1320. You shorten the track 320' and you made the shut down way longer, compounded by the slower speed. You still have 300mph and 4 scond e.t.'s and the racer is still safer by far. I think racers are always at certain risk. They could still get up on the other guys tire and fly sprint car style or burn or a number of other dangers. But the shut down danger can only be adressed by track length.
     I was at the 84 U.S. Nationals when NHRA put in 1000' clocks to test the waters for shortening the tracks. It was the fuel racers who wanted nothing to do with it! Would take the bling out of their match racing and there 300mph speeds. I for one like the front engine cars and nostalgia fuel funny cars . I was at 50th March meet and it was the BEST! Wish they would get T.V. along with the gasers. The grandstands are full to watch 250 mph cars.

MCR

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 10:34:53 PM »
While an eighth mile has always been "half a race" in my eyes, it was really discouraging to see the video of Scott Kalitta's crash.

From what I saw, the engine let loose, probably oiling down the tires, and when the chute went up in flames, he was perhaps a goner regardless of any action he could (or couldn't) take. 

I like Vegas, where there is a good uphill section and lots of room at the big end.  He would most likely be telling war stories about the fire if he were at Vegas, but he wasn't.  But IIRC, even Vegas had a fatality on the big end when a driver was knocked out by tire shake.

At this point, I think each track should make a serious study and decision whether to limit racing to 1/8th mile for cars over 200 trap speeds based on their layout.

Drag racing is still a very safe motorsport, but it has been claiming some of the real professionals of the sport as of late. 




Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 06:25:36 PM »
Seen the tape of the crash, Franklin? The rear half of the body came off when the engine exploded. Your NACA ducts would have gone bye-bye.

Also, according to NHRA rules, the chutes are to be mounted so that both open when the body comes off. They did so, and one burned off immediately.

Tapes show the front half of the body was still on - but we can't tell if it obscured his vision, or not.

I can't speak to the validity of new ribbon chutes, so I'll leave that to others.

The N.J. Highway Patrol & the NHRA are investigating the accident, and have concluded the car was airborne at approximately 250MPH over the sand trap (not sand at Englishtown, by the way), and hit the retaining wall, continuing over it and hitting the cab of the camera boom truck, coming to rest in the trees beyond the wall.

Here's a bird's eye view of the top end at Englishtown.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=458074&d=1214178791

I'm no expert, so that's all I've got to say concerning your suggestions. Thanks.




My comments were directed toward several possible scenarios, not just the Kalitta crash, but it boils down to either get the cars stopped quicker, shorten the racing distance, or lengthen the track.

I also think if nitro Funny Cars had canard wings like ones Lew Arrington later installed on his car, so that they didn't instantly lose all downforce when the body came off, that might help too.

NHRA RELEASES INITIAL FINDINGS FROM TRAGEDY AT ENGLISHTOWN; ANNOUNCES INITIATIVES MOVING FORWARD
GLENDORA, Calif. (June 27, 2008) – While still conducting its investigation into the details of last week’s tragic accident that took the life of driver Scott Kalitta, NHRA announced today some of its initial findings and subsequent steps being taken to continue its efforts to make the sport safer.

The loss of Scott Kalitta, a passionate champion driver and devoted family man, still weighs heavy on the hearts of everyone at NHRA, as we reflect on his many accomplishments and pass along our deepest condolences to his wife Kathy, his sons Corey and Colin, his father Connie, his cousin Doug, the entire Kalitta family and team, and all those he left behind.

It has been determined that a tragic series of events took place that fateful afternoon.  An engine explosion near the end of the run resulted in separating most of the car’s body from the chassis.  The car’s parachutes did not blossom, and the vehicle continued down the right side of the shut down area at a high rate of speed.  It went off the top end of the track, up into the right catch net pole, and hit the television camera boom beyond the end of the sand trap before coming to a rest. 

This sequence of events resulted in the passing of the two-time world champion and veteran second-generation driver.

The New Jersey State Police investigation team was on site the same day, working with NHRA officials as both conducted their investigation.  Once it becomes available, NHRA will analyze the State Police report for any additional information on the incident. NHRA also continued its own investigation by bringing mechanical engineer and accident reconstruction expert David McCandless, M.S. M.E., P.E., to the site.  McCandless is an independent engineer with more than 15 years of experience in reconstructing vehicular accidents.  McCandless worked with NHRA officials, members of the Kalitta race team, and officers from the New Jersey State Police accident investigation team on site.  McCandless examined and analyzed the vehicle, the track and other data, and his investigation is still underway.  The Delphi technical team and Ford recovered and are analyzing the “Blue Box” data recorder data and NHRA is using this data and analysis in its investigation.

After its preliminary investigation, NHRA identified several areas to analyze and determine whether changes should be made to build upon the sport’s long standing safety record, given the inherent risks and ever-present dangers associated with race cars traveling a quarter mile at more than 300 mph.   


Technical Issues to be Investigated

·         Engine failure.  NHRA, working with the Kalitta race team, has examined the engine, and will work with the Kalitta team and other teams to analyze what might be done to reduce such incidents in the future. 

·         Parachute materials.  Since the parachutes did not blossom, NHRA will work with parachute manufacturers and suppliers and SFI to analyze parachute mounting techniques and materials.  Even though fire does not appear to have prevented the chutes from blossoming in this situation, NHRA also will work with manufacturers and suppliers to identify a parachute material that could be more fire resistant. 

·         Brakes.  Research will be conducted to explore whether there is a way to increase brake efficiency when cars lose downforce due to the loss of the body. "


Offline Glen

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 07:40:38 PM »
This post was not necessary as 90% of the racers log onto NHRA.COM and follow the drag races. It's way to early to have any answers or fixes for the funny car or any other drag vehicle. The duplicating of the nhra post just uses up band width. Jon has asked you in the past not to make these long posts but to post a link to them. Why do you continue to go against the web masters wishes. Please think about what you are doing and play by the rules.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 07:45:54 PM by Glen »
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Offline mtkawboy

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 03:35:04 PM »
I think everyone should repost everything they ever read in a book, magazine, newspaper or any other source. Have you ever had an original thought of your own Mr Ratliff ? You apparently enjoy pissing people off so good luck. Jon will be giving you the boot any time now. :roll:

Ratliff

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Re: Some thoughts on Funny Car safety
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 03:47:18 PM »
I think everyone should repost everything they ever read in a book, magazine, newspaper or any other source. Have you ever had an original thought of your own Mr Ratliff ? You apparently enjoy pissing people off so good luck. Jon will be giving you the boot any time now. :roll:

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 04:04:27 PM by Ratliff »