Milwaukee Midget

[Milwaukee Midget]

Well - it's a start - time to get out the cheese grater.

I've got an e-mail in to John Noonan about a Wossner piston number listed in their European catalog.

The Wossner piece provides an "advertised" CR of 12.5:1 with a 349 cc volume per cylinder.

A crude calculation, not taking into account the gap above the ring to the deck - and quite honestly, not knowing if the advertised CR includes that, either - and assuming the top of the piston not including the bump is flush with the deck, the intrusion of the Wossner piston to create the 12.5 CR is about 6 cc.

With this piston face, it looks like we'll need to find another 8 cc to make 13.5 work with a 1 liter - all else being equal.

It's going to be busy in THIS head around TDC . . . 

Oh, yeah - and the valves aren't vertical this time . . .

[Milwaukee Midget]

Quick Pom Rod update - the threads are repaired in the block and the heads are back on, torqued into place.

Also, Terry suggested I double check the cam timing - and yes, Terry, you were right.

Mark, the oil pan bolts went into the mail this morning, and I'll get your Helicoil kit back to you next week.

      "Block housing bore dimensions:   2.0307" - 2.0315"

           Does Mel have a mandrel for this diameter?"

Why yes, he does!

[fordboy628]

"Block housing bore dimensions:   2.0307" - 2.0315"

Does Mel have a mandrel for this diameter?"

Why yes, he does!

OK!!

I suggest milling the girdle, NOT the block, to close up the clearances.    That will "drop" the crank less.

Probably want to check this first, before doing it, but uhhh, no crank to spin . . . . . .     No sense in paying for machine work that is not needed . . . . . . .
 
Fordboy

[Milwaukee Midget]

Probably want to check this first, before doing it, but uhhh, no crank to spin . . . . . .     No sense in paying for machine work that is

Okay, that raises a question.

Should I be looking to acquire the new oil rail and ARP studs first, or will there be sufficient clamp with the old long-bolts and ladder to perform the operation?

And I expect the answer to be the one that requires the earlier cash outlay . . .

[fordboy628]

Probably want to check this first, before doing it, but uhhh, no crank to spin . . . . . .     No sense in paying for machine work that is

Okay, that raises a question.

Should I be looking to acquire the new oil rail and ARP studs first, or will there be sufficient clamp with the old long-bolts and ladder to perform the operation?

And I expect the answer to be the one that requires the earlier cash outlay . . .

Uhhhmm,

I'm writing this off to Keith Richards like confusion, induced by rock band practice . . . . . . . .   

Keep practicing that riff from "Satisfaction" until you can play it while even in a "zen-like" trance, the answer will come to you.

And if that doesn't work, have your Snap-On-Tools buddy/drummer assist you by repeatedly clonking you in the noggin with a cowbell, until a vision of the answer is apparent.

This procedure may need to be performed on Holy Hill near the Shrine.    No shame in asking for Divine intervention if that is what is required at this point . . . . . . . .
 
Justtryin'tahelpboy

[fordboy628]

A crude calculation, not taking into account the gap above the ring to the deck - and quite honestly, not knowing if the advertised CR includes that, either - and assuming the top of the piston not including the bump is flush with the deck, the intrusion of the Wossner piston to create the 12.5 CR is about 6 cc.

Wossner should be able to provide this information, AND whether the dome volume can be increased using their forging.

And additionally, they should also be able to provide this information:

A)    Max wrist pin dia the forging can accommodate.
2)    Max/min compression height the forging can accommodate.
d)    Max space allowable under the dome, to allow a "bushed" rod, to facilitate using a smaller diameter wrist pin.
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

The Wossner piece provides an "advertised" CR of 12.5:1 with a 349 cc volume per cylinder.

A crude calculation, not taking into account the gap above the ring to the deck - and quite honestly, not knowing if the advertised CR includes that, either - and assuming the top of the piston not including the bump is flush with the deck, the intrusion of the Wossner piston to create the 12.5 CR is about 6 cc.

With this piston face, it looks like we'll need to find another 8 cc to make 13.5 work with a 1 liter - all else being equal.

From the Wossner website:
http://www.wossnerpistons.com/products/product-details/id/WOS-9221D050/name/wossner-piston-mg-zr-1-4ltr-16v-75-5-mm-bore

Product Detail

MG / Rover ZR 1.4Ltr. 16V / Metro, 100, 200, 25, 400, 45, Streetwise 1.4Ltr. 16V
Part Number 9221D050
Bore Size 75.5 mm
Clearance 0.07 mm
Compression Height  
Compression Ratio 12.5:1
Cylinder No. 4 Cyl./Kit
Displacement 1395 cc
Dome Volume 10.7 cm³
Engine Code 14K4F
Piston Weight 218 g
Stroke 79 mm
Valves/Cylinder 4
Gasket P/N  
Lock P/N CW18
Pin P/N WP031
Ring Set P/N 755XDS
Rod P/N

All three bore sizes cataloged, 75.0mm, 75.5mm, and 76.0mm, all have 10.7cc's listed as their dome volume.
Would have been nice if they would have listed compression height and pin diameter . . . . . . .   

 
Fordboy

[Milwaukee Midget]

Should I be looking to acquire the new oil rail and ARP studs first, or will there be sufficient clamp with the old long-bolts and ladder to perform the operation?

And I expect the answer to be the one that requires the earlier cash outlay . . .

Uhhhmm,

I'm writing this off to Keith Richards like confusion, induced by rock band practice . . . . . . . .   

Keep practicing that riff from "Satisfaction" until you can play it while even in a "zen-like" trance, the answer will come to you.

So waiting for that royalty check is not an option . . . got it.

[Stainless1]

I trust you have been in contact with John Noonan on the pistons.   
He is LSR friendly and can get any piston combo you want made.  There is a Wossner sticker on the lakester.  True customs take a little longer than going to the website and ordering... drawing and customer approval takes time. 
Give him a call and let him know what you are thinking (714) 369-8879 

[Milwaukee Midget]

Yep, John is who I dropped the e-mail to, but I'll follow through with the phone call.  They don't list the part we're looking at in the US catalog, but it's available in Great Britain, and hopefully can be a starting point.

Bob, I've been meaning to contact you as well, regarding some motorcycle throttle bodies to size up and flow.

Geez - the list of sh!t2git is getting enormous.

[Stainless1]

I recently worked on BJ Burkdoll's truck, we used my 1 liter with his head because the later model 1000 TB spacing was different and we did not want to rebuild the plenum to fit the older style head.  The newer TBs come in pairs and are larger than the older 1 liter and Busa TB specs I sent you back in Oct.  It is that larger less restriction TB that gave the newer engine more HP.  They also had 2 injectors per TB, upper and lower, smaller flow than the singles, but 2 of them so more control down low with more available fuel on top for his blown application.   
 

[fordboy628]

I recently worked on BJ Burkdoll's truck, we used my 1 liter with his head because the later model 1000 TB spacing was different and we did not want to rebuild the plenum to fit the older style head.  The newer TBs come in pairs and are larger than the older 1 liter and Busa TB specs I sent you back in Oct.  It is that larger less restriction TB that gave the newer engine more HP.  They also had 2 injectors per TB, upper and lower, smaller flow than the singles, but 2 of them so more control down low with more available fuel on top for his blown application.   
 

Stainless, midget,

Inlet port centerline spacing between ports:   88mm   -   3.464"  for each pair.

Ie:
1-2     88mm
1-3   176mm,    2-3 88mm
1-4   264mm,    3-4 88mm

I'm thinking the centerline spacing on a bike engine would be more compressed, narrower.     Is that correct?    Can't imagine the spacing would be the same as a Rover . . . .
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

midget,

Inlet port centerline spacing between ports:   88mm   -   3.464"  for each pair.

Ie:
1-2     88mm
1-3   176mm,    2-3 88mm
1-4   264mm,    3-4 88mm

I'm thinking the centerline spacing on a bike engine would be more compressed, narrower.     Is that correct?    Can't imagine the spacing would be the same as a Rover . . . .
 
Fordboy

midget,

Inlet port centerline spacing between ports:   88mm   -   3.464"  for each pair.
Intake port diameter  33.7mm/33.8mm

Exhaust port centerline spacing between ports:   88mm   -   3.464"  for each pair.
Exhaust port diameter  32.9mm/33.1mm

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the cylinder bore spacing for K series engines is:  88mm,   Just a WAG on my part . . . . .
 
Metricboy

[Stainless1]

Yep the old ones were even at 80mm the newer ones were 80 between the center 2 and narrower between the outside pairs.   
I see a custom manifold in your future, you could make the newer style look like webers.
 

[fordboy628]

Yep the old ones were even at 80mm the newer ones were 80 between the center 2 and narrower between the outside pairs.   
I see a custom manifold in your future, you could make the newer style look like webers.
 

Yeah, I was figuring the manifold and header to be custom items.    I just want a "straight shot" at the cylinder head from the injector/throttle body.    Since the Jade "Grenade" is being pensioned off, why compromise?

There are some Jenvey and QED throttle bodies available in the UK, but I think they are sized for 1.6L and larger engines at 42mm choke size.

We need to look at the stock manifold and fuel rail objectively and peruse a moment of clarity . . . . . .
 
Fordboy