What is a World Land Speed Record? is it SCTA, FIM, AMA, ECTA, El Mirage...?

[willieworld]

sam what the hell are you talking about you need to go back and read my last post and look closely 132.280 mph =212.970 km/h      MPH and KM/H   get it       williebuchta

[Sam Green]

sam what the hell are you talking about you need to go back and read my last post and look closely 132.280 mph =212.970 km/h      MPH and KM/H   get it       williebuchta

Willie, if you averaged 132.280mph over a standing start mile, your termial speed would probably be well over 200mph.
If you did, fantastic, my mistake Where did you do it and was it a two way run ?

Sam.

[willieworld]

sam  thats what i dont like about the computer we cant hear the tone in each others voice so sometimes we cant tell if someone is joking or just being stupid--i looked up the fim record it said standing start -i converted it to km/h well you know the rest and it was supposed to be humor  some laughed some took it serious ---if i ever find out what the fim rules are i will try it again and be accurate --most of the time accuratcy isnt required in humor  thanks  willie buchta

[Malcolm UK]

Sam

Just so I do not offend the people timing events at Maxton, El Mirage or Bonneville (USFRA and SCTA) [some of whom I count as friends either through this website or in person] it is not a matter of the difference or otherwise of timing methods as such.  Indeed some of the US equipment is state of the art and I believe that all can measure a mile or kilometre or 132 feet timing trap length to a level of accuracy that equals or surpasses the FIA/FIM rules.

The difference in not comparing 'apples with apples' that arises because of the style of USA based Land Speed Racing events for very large numbers of participants (and I am thinking four wheeled vehicles here).

If you have a copy of each of the sanctioning bodies rules books in front of you, you will easily see how they differ from the FIA Appendix D.  The runs are one direction and 'servicing' is allowed before the back up run the following morning.  Some (but very few) cars do run for BNI INternational records which mirror the FIA methods (although I have not been able to be present on the salt to see these for myself).

I loved the kph & mph reasoning of Willie - I too am in a metric "2 Club" at 213!

Malcolm

[Ratliff]

I know I made comments on this subject yesterday. What happened to them?

[Ratliff]

Randall, Congrats on your world landspeed record. 
Do you ever watch boxing?  At any time, there are at least 6 heavy weight champions of the world, depends on which boxing organization you are signed up to and who you pay fees to for the fight.  Racing is the same way
If you want to unite the record, race them all and become the undisputed record holder.  Of course, that will probably cause you to travel to Australia, Maxton, Texas, Nevada, Bonneville (several times, scta, Bub) and California.  There may be others in the future, Maine comes to mind....
So it is all about who gets the money to certify your record.  There is no venue to become the undisputed world record holder.

Andy Green is the undisputed holder of the World Land Speed Record.

As far as wheel driven is concerned, unless you're the driver of the world's fastest supercharged car, world's fastest unsupercharged car, world's fastest turbine car, or the rider of the world's fastest bike liner or world's fastest open bike, then you're a holder of a class or international record not a world record.

The only drivers who hold official world records for piston engine wheel driven cars are Al Teague and Bob Summers, since respectively they hold the FIA records for supercharged and unsupercharged cars. However, since Tom Burkland has set an SCTA record for supercharged cars that is faster than Al Teague's FIA record, I think an argument can be made that is the true world record for supercharged cars.

[Richard Thomason]

What about the world's fastest Blue Front Wheel Drive Car? How do we set up the parameters here? There-in lies the rub!

[2fast4u2c]

Interesting read from all.  In May, I captured the APS/F 1650-4, 2000-4, 3000-4 and 3000+ using a Nitrous Oxide powered bike from a standing start to 1 mile.  My fastest speed is 228.803mph on nitrous.  Now, since no one else in the world has gone faster than that at any venue in any universe, dimension, parrallel planet or not, and the ECTA is a sanctioning body with t-shirts and everything, does that make me the "Worlds Fastest Nitrous Motorcycle"?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  But I'll say maybe yes.  that's my story and I'm stickin toit.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Guy, you've hit upon my thesis -- a speed that is faster than any other comparable vehicle has gone is the fastest in the world and can therefore be considered a world record.  Whether the record is sanctioned by any particular organization or not is beside the point (as long as the speed is measured by a certifiable method) - if you've gone faster than anyone else in the world has gone, how could you not have a world record?  Any adjective added to the description of world's fastest just dilutes the statement (i.e. world's fastest under the FIM/SCTA/DLRA/CHP/PTA rules), but the speed doesn't change.

Congratulations on the record 228++, and thanks for leaving the goal intact for when (if ever, darn it) I get back on the track with my nitrous bike.  Someplace I've got a photo of the control panel of your bike, and I'll try to find and post it here.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Here's the only photo I've got of Guy Caputo's bike:


Sure is busy - watching all of that hardware and the track...  Notice, if you will, the custom chin rest on the front of the tank.  High tech, hey?

[Sam Green]

I am all in favour of this newish form of land speed racing that has sprung up at Maxton, Texas, Woodbridge and Elvington.
It gives newcomers to the world of land speed racing a good insight into the sport proper.
What I don't undertand is, how can people can claim a record for the standing mile when there is no direct comparison between the way these events are timed.
The speeds that we clock in these events are terminal speeds at the end of a standing start mile.
If you try to compare our speeds with the equivalent FIM AMA or ACU standing start mile speeds, they are way out due to the fact that their's are mean average speeds converted from the mean average time it takes to cover a standing start mile in both directions.
To give you an example, the British record for the standing start mile, for the class I ride in is 97.29mph, (OK I only ride a small bike )
At the last event I competed in a few weeks back I recorded 118.3mph at the end of a mile into a 17mph head wind.
It does'nt make me the new British record holder, now dose it.

Sam.

[willieworld]

sam willie here --got your message--you sir are a gentleman--lets try this again--at bonneville the starting line is mile 0 --you run to the mile1 marker -you are timed from mile 1 marker to mile 2 marker and from mile 2 marker to mile 3 marker --at mile 3 run is over ( if you can run 175 mph in the first 1/4 of the first timed mile then you can run on the long course)--at el mirage the course is 1 and 1/3 miles long you are timed in the last few feet ( i think 132 ft ) and maxton is 1 mile with the timing in the last 132 feet  i think --any way its all a standing start with the timing done at the end of the track and i think most land speed racing is done that way otherwise it would like drag racing with an elapsed time then you could do the math and figure out an average time but that wouldnt be top speed--- what kind of a bike do you run  willie buchta

[Sam Green]

Hi Willie, I'm just finishing my night shift at work so not got time for a biiigggggg reply
I'll try to explain myself better this evening when I have more Time.
I run a little Honda two stroke, only done one top speed event on it and was hampered real bad by a strong head wind. It's still in the development stages, the next step being Nitrous and I have not got a clue about the stuff. I have got a few top guys to point me in the right direction though.
Thanks for the acceptance and kind words Willie.

Sam.

[Ratliff]

Guy, you've hit upon my thesis -- a speed that is faster than any other comparable vehicle has gone is the fastest in the world and can therefore be considered a world record.  Whether the record is sanctioned by any particular organization or not is beside the point (as long as the speed is measured by a certifiable method) - if you've gone faster than anyone else in the world has gone, how could you not have a world record?  Any adjective added to the description of world's fastest just dilutes the statement (i.e. world's fastest under the FIM/SCTA/DLRA/CHP/PTA rules), but the speed doesn't change.

Congratulations on the record 228++, and thanks for leaving the goal intact for when (if ever, darn it) I get back on the track with my nitrous bike.  Someplace I've got a photo of the control panel of your bike, and I'll try to find and post it here.

Like they said in Highlander, "There can be only one."

I think if you're the driver of the world's fastest car or the rider of the world's fastest bike, then you're on the most solid ground for saying you hold a world record.

I think it's when you have to start putting more adjectives after "world's fastest" that claims of a world record become more open to debate.

[Ratliff]

Guy, you've hit upon my thesis -- a speed that is faster than any other comparable vehicle has gone is the fastest in the world and can therefore be considered a world record.  Whether the record is sanctioned by any particular organization or not is beside the point (as long as the speed is measured by a certifiable method) - if you've gone faster than anyone else in the world has gone, how could you not have a world record?  Any adjective added to the description of world's fastest just dilutes the statement (i.e. world's fastest under the FIM/SCTA/DLRA/CHP/PTA rules), but the speed doesn't change.

Congratulations on the record 228++, and thanks for leaving the goal intact for when (if ever, darn it) I get back on the track with my nitrous bike.  Someplace I've got a photo of the control panel of your bike, and I'll try to find and post it here.

I believe the fundamental measure for the validity of a record is whether it is a true measure of technical progress.

For example, a short trap at the end of a mile measures whether a bike can sustain for a short period of time the horsepower needed to run whatever speeds are clocked.

Running the same speeds at Bonneville tells you whether an engine has the durability to clock those speeds over longer distances, so in that sense Bonneville and Texas/Maxton mile records are not the same fundamental measure of progress.