What is a World Land Speed Record? is it SCTA, FIM, AMA, ECTA, El Mirage...?

[Randall Parker]

I am just confused.  My Certificate says "World Land Speed Record".  Bub says FIM is World Land Speed records.  AMA is National Records?  So SCTA does not count in the United States?  Just don't get it and I am sure it is some political thing.

[willieworld]

i have a speed record at el mirage there is no place in the galaxie that you can break my record but at el mirage with a bike like mine with the same size motor so i would say that el mirage records are a galactical speed record although everyone wont agree with me especially b.b.  willie buchta

[Stainless1]

Randall, Congrats on your world landspeed record. 
Do you ever watch boxing?  At any time, there are at least 6 heavy weight champions of the world, depends on which boxing organization you are signed up to and who you pay fees to for the fight.  Racing is the same way
If you want to unite the record, race them all and become the undisputed record holder.  Of course, that will probably cause you to travel to Australia, Maxton, Texas, Nevada, Bonneville (several times, scta, Bub) and California.  There may be others in the future, Maine comes to mind....
So it is all about who gets the money to certify your record.  There is no venue to become the undisputed world record holder.

[dwarner]

"So SCTA does not count in the United States?"

SCTA records count ONLY in the USA.

DW

[Sumner]

i have a speed record at el mirage there is no place in the galaxy that you can break my record but at el mirage .....................  willie buchta

Hey I'll have to find a book on parallel universes for you.  Right now someone is probably after your El Mirage record out there somewhere    ,

Sum

[willieworld]

sumner gets it       willie buchta

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Here's my sort-of different take on the phrase "world record":  There are, as stated above and we all know it anyway, a few organizations that certify speeds attempts and reward the fast ones with a "record".  Let's assume that you have one (or more) of those records in your class, and so now you've got a record that at least has been certified, no matter which group certified it.

Stipulate, for the sake of this discussion, that the FIM record speed in your class is 165 mph, the SCTA record speed in your class is 170, the ECTA record speed in the class is 175, the El Mirage record speed is 168, the Muroc record speed is 160, the DLRA record speed is 171, and so on if I've missed any sanctioning group.  Each of those speeds is a record, right?

Which is REALLY the world record?  If you ask me -- the fastest speed is the fastest record, and therefore really is the world record speed.  Sure you can attribute faster/slower speeds to track, conditions, day of the week, phase of the moon -- but if you've run the fastest number you can defensibly claim to have the fastest record in the world, and therefore the world record.  Ergo, the ECTA record is the world record in my example.

Okay, folks, now it's your turn.

[willieworld]

let me state my case again---if i have a record at el mirage it cant be broken any where in the universe except  at el mirage by a bike like mine with the same type and size motor --i rest my case  willie buchta

[Larry Forstall]

I agree with Jon (W) sorta of. Most of this only applies to bikes with their superior acceleration. The fastest is the fastest BUT because the record requirements at the standing mile (+) venues only require one run with no backup a vehicle can get lucky; tailwind, perfect run then the vehicle breaks, etc. You could say that about the Yancy/Shierts record except they have many reasonably close records. Then you will have the idiots who say the Flying Dutchman is the fastest O/W bike because he has a timeslip of 265 neglecting to mention he had a 40 mph tailwind and could not get the bike to run well enough on the return to even average 250. But he went 265(For eighty feet !!!) OK. Mark DeLuca is going to try and break his Bonneville N/A record at Maxton this weekend. Totally different bike, much lighter to accelerate, more HP because of less altitude, but no aero and a limited distance. Should be interesting. I think in the end one picks their venue, does their best and the LSR community will reward the fastest with a handshake. That's why we do this, isn't it?  

[guttley782]

I think the crux of the topic is the word, "world". The established norm is to make a run in both directions within a certain time to negate any advantage such as wind, slope etc. In my humble opinion all other records are "national".

[Stainless1]

I agree with Jon (W) sorta of. ....... Should be interesting. I think in the end one picks their venue, does their best and the LSR community will reward the fastest with a handshake. That's why we do this, isn't it?  

I originally got in it for the money.....  OK, maybe not.  Again, everybody's rules can be different, so what you get is what you want it to be.  A World Land Speed Record.   In that venue, no one has gone faster.  The Salt is considered to be the ultimate venue, why, because that is where a lot of folks go, there is a lot more room than in the Mile events.  The FIA, the FIM, the AMA, they are just sanctioning bodies.  Do they matter to me, no, why, because 2/3s are Frogs and the other abandoned LSR years ago, only to come back when it suited a promoter.  Would I go to an event to see a bike go 350+ or a car go 500? you bet I would.  
Right now the fastest guy on a motorcycle is Sam Wheeler, the record holder is Chris Carr, the guy before him was Rocky Robinson.....the guy I am rooting for this year is a Bad Man running English Vintage Iron.  What matters is who goes the fastest.  That is why we do this, to be the fastest...

[jimmy six]

If you don't want the Certificate which the SCTA/BNI sends out after setting a speed record at Bonneville at either Speed Week or World Finals, please state here after either of the 2 meets so Glen's, Ed's or my time by making it for you and sending it out. You could also hand write in on your entry. (No certificate please)

Ask yourself  the question..."what the the World Series of Baseball" have to do with the world.

[Flyboy]

In my opinion... it all boils down to the wind. Wind affects most sports.... golf, tennis, sailing, football, baseball and most importantly Lands Speed Racing. In my airplane, with a constant power setting, I have achieved a ground speed (per two GPS's) of 80 knots and 240 knots and these are basically at the same altitude of 12,000 feet.  Of all the racing venues in the World I only know of the FIM/AMA venues put on by BUB that take wind into account and these venues are for motorcyles only. Return runs must be with 2 hours for FIM and 4 hours for AMA. And then the two speeds must be averaged out for a final record speed. The problem I see with Maxton and the Texas mile is that the landing strips were built into the prevailing winds so they the US military could land their WWII planes... into the pervailing winds for the least landing speeds. Many of the speed runs at these two venues are made with the wind and no return runs are made due to logistics.

In my opinion, each venue must have it's own records because different atmospheric, physical conditions and rules apply. One must compare "apples with apples". One can't compare a speed at Maxton with one at Bonneville. In regard to World Records one must have two runs in opposite directions in a short amount of time to take wind into account. Any venue in the World can have World record capabilities but at this time the FIM/AMA trials at BUB are the only racing venues to take wind into account. Therefore I feel the FIM records are the only truly World Records for motorcycles.  As for what is a World record with a car... well I leave that up to you cars guys to decide--

[guttley782]

Hi Stainless,
Just a minor point here. Richard Brown ran 365mph in his Gillette 3 rocket bike back at BUB in 1999, so in theory he is the fastest bike, or should that be two-wheeler? Craig Breedlove had a similar problem with his thrust car, but fastest is fastest? I think that SCTA is superb, and am proud to have made the trip over there three times. They have a fantastic location, and a superb organisation which run the best speed meetings in the world, bar non. Twice I have qualified for one of their records, but both times been unable to back it up. The fact that it would be an SCTA record and not a world record would not matter, it would be on my wall in pride of place, as is my Bonneville trophy from 2003! Flyboy makes good sense with what he says....

[dwarner]

IMO, the same vehicle running on different length tracks can hold multiple records in class. Can't compare the records to each other, the same but different.

Now, if the mile venues would work together with the same record database, fair but equal tech and verifiable impound certification you would really have something. A unified record set and the confidenice that a person could travel to different tracks without the fear of not being legal in class.

DW