Want to run over 200 , what to build ?

[Stan Back]

Spinnin's a lot different than crashing.  Glen wishes you no harm.  Besides, he wouldn't want to slow down the meet.  Why don't you take a look at the classes, take a look at the rules, and build what you want.  No, the SCTA doesn't have spec classes -- that's one thing that makes it great.  But a 34 Ford coupe may not be the optimum body style in any class.  If that's what you want to build, you can.  It may just make a record harder to get.  Look at the record book, if that's what you're after.  See if in a particular class that the records do not go up progressively.  Find a hole -- and build for it.  It might give you a better chance.  But don't think that all the records are just being held unobtainable by the good ol' boys.  And a $40,000 '34 that goes 250 can be built.  But you better own a lot of the parts to start with.  And if you don't want a single purpose car, you can learn from a well-known operation that has a dual purpose roadster that's now gotten within 50 MPH of their record.
 
  <small>[ April 06, 2004, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Stan Back ]</small>

[Bob Beatty]

Jim,
 You asked for advice.  A number of folks with lots of experience have responded trying to be helpful.  You can accept or reject their thoughts, but like most people in land speed racing, they are ready and willing to help each other and newcomers to achieve their LSR goals.  
 You are wise to ask for their help because there is a learning curve to this deal.  Those that come into LSR thinking their knowledge of other forms of motorsport will insure them instant success are usually surprised.
 No one here wishes you anything but a safe and successful experience with your LSR effort.  So good luck, go fast, be safe - and if you want help, all you have to do is ask.

[Cword]

We were a group of guys with similar questions just a few short years ago.  
 We got our answers by determining what we wanted to do.
 Being a bunch of rodders we chose to restrict ourselves to a vintage class. We all were enamored with the 200 goal so we narrowed our focus to those classes that had vehicles running over 200. Then we looked around to see what resources we had.
 The best input we ever had into our decision making was a research/holiday to Speedweek.
 
 That first trip out with no car cannot ever be considered a wasted trip.
 
 We are thoroughly enjoying our LSR experiences and  the struggle to push our roadster pickup over 200.
 
 Mike Siewert
 http://www.fsra.org/n49

[jimmy six]

Hey Jim! don't give up on the forum. Your first inquiry was for 200. Now it's 240 or 250.  That's a lot.. I read that you feel our rule book is not specific enough on Rollbar/cages. The pictures are right out of the NHRA book. They have been for years.. All demensions are written down in the book.  Depending on the class you pick allowances are made for the class.IE: Altered have set backs and step pans, Comp coupes have belly pans and more set back. Questions can be answered here alot easier than in impounds.. You've stated that you would rather use a vintage bodied car.  There are more than one place that must be looked at in the book.  It's just the SCTA's way. Definitions are also extremely important as all here can say. The Salt is a very humbling place. However, many have come in one year and completed their goal of setting a record and getting in the 2 Club. Hey I've helped them, and I'm happy for them as I would be for you.. Years ago many were very closed mouthed on what it took, much like all the other forms of motorsports,  But I've found that has changed and I was one of them. I've loaned all my engine parts to a guy trying to break a record I've had since 1985. I'd love to have him get it.. We all are here to help.. But if you looking to be an assembler rather than a builder this may take a little more time that you would have hoped.

[KeithTurk]

Amazing... been 249.2mph so I guess I count as someone who's been where your trying to Go Jim...
 
 What the guys are saying is in fact true... it's easy to build HP... building a Vintage car that goes straight and is stable when your pushing it with that HP is another story all together...
 
 Okay... now what to do... Don't mess with a Vintage car if your willing to do a Lakester... they simply don't have the aero drag.. and this is all about Aero... nothing else is as important in planning a car... you don't like new cars... fair enough... do a Lakester... build a Belly tank... get a copy of Bonneville Racing news... find Randy Dupree and pick up a Tank... trust me on this... it's Twice as easy to make it go 2 bills then a 3- anything...
 
 Sure it can be done but at what cost?  and it's not about Money... it's about the development time... which is brutal on something new like this... a Lakester will just make your life a ton easier...
 
 oh and I'd like to recommend joining the e-mail list that's on this site... another place you can find a Super quality group of folks that have a clue about what you want to do

[landracing]

Jim, jim, jim, jim,
 
 Now settle down a bit, and read what I am saying any (many can contest to this). The better half of folks racing have found that the dream of 200 mph is easy, but in reality it takes development time, what does this mean, maybe 2, 3, 10 or 20 engines. Different combinations. Many trips to the salt. Handleing issue one year, wet course no traction the next, ruin a set of tires, ruin a few motors, spin the car and ruin front end stuff, windows break, rear ends explode. You put that all together and you may have 5-10 years invested. How much can you spend in a year? We are talking about getting a car done, engines, support equipment, gas on the way out, gas on the way back, hotels, food.
 
 All we are saying is keep your visions high, but even the best equiped teams get the misfortune of the "salt gods". Things happen.
 
 My statement was actually the truth when I said It could be cheaper to just buy Joe Laws lakester and go run it, already a proven car, nothing to iron out there, engines are pretty solid, support equipment comes with the deal.
 
 Ask Keith turk about what he spent to reach his 249 mph run.
 I know a racer that has been racing since maybe 1997, and he reached this goal last year. I would guess his budget was well over the 100K. I DONT KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. Maybe ill ask him someday. But I do know it was very well designed cars, big engines but a whole lot of misfortune.
 
 Nobody has all the right answers for every project on what the formula is for 200 mph. Some know the hp, some know the chassis. But you always have a guy or lady behind the wheel to make split decisions, Ruts, debris on course, bump, wind gusts, tire slip, blown tire these are the things that can happen. Which in turn, like Glen had said, leads to spins. you could not have prevented them maybe you could have but that is where experience comes in. How do you get that, years on the salt.
 
 Cheer up, stay with your plan, we all want to see you succeed, but the reality of it is, it takes money and dedication.
 
 Keep us posted
 Jonathan

[smitty2]

Hey Jim!
 Don't feel like you've had your head bit off!
 These guys have been at this for a very long time, and I stepped into the "...." with them at first.. There was a guy on this board that sounded like he knew what was happinin, but he turned out to be a toad, and I got my "come upence" over that. THESE GUYS REALLY KNOW!
  I thought at first that I could throw something together and go race... BIG surprise! I have spent nearly $2000.00 bucks on a fire suit.. Haven't  even bought a parachute, much less 2 of them that I suppose in the long run I will need, No fire system yet... The money I had earmarked for my frame has gone to safety systems...Not to mention the price of the "Doner" car that is still an eyesore in front of my shop( Engine, Trans, and rearend.) All I want to do is build something that I can develope into a race car. I will start with a car that most people will laugh at and work on that till I get something worth bragging about. Hell for now.. All I hope for is something that will allow me to get a license to drive at a speed that will be far away from any record.
  Maybe someday I'll set a record, maybe not. At any length I'll be able to tell people that I actually drove something on the salt flats.
  Don't get bent outa shape.. Like I said.. These guys only have your best interest at heart, and are so helpfull even to the point of overload! ( Sorry about that Ryan, but I'm still studying turbocharging;) ).
 
  Thanks...  Smitty

[Ryan]

HA, I've yet begun to write.
 
 I wanted to pop in & add my two cents worth but seen the responce Jim was getting and decided to set back & read instead.
 
 Building an engine for the altitude alone would take some thought. I've built a 500+hp 355 chevy engine in the past. I understand cam timing very well, ring seal, carburetion and what it takes for the engine to last. As I read what it takes to run on salt, best to listen for a while and learn. Do my homework so-to-speak. I may never get to run a car on the salt but, to me anyway, bikes have that "openess" feeling. People may feel more secure in a car and be right about it. Being on a bike at speed has a certian "in control" to me. If something did go wrong I know in myself I would be very busy doing everything possible to regain control. Be it a controlled slow responce or lightening quick adjustment, I'd rather have the option of control in my hands. Being a ride-along steering this way or that in a mishap scares me more then anything. Somehow hanging onto a steering wheel isn't what I consider control.
 
 Ahhh to each his own. That's what makes racing fun. Jim just build whatever pleases you. After all, it's you alone out there running flat-out. I'm sure these veterans can tell you, while running. Every nut, bolt, screw & shaft on the vehicle is on your mind. Ripples on the track may shake something loose, a hard bump might shatter a ball joint, bearings too tight will heat up & seize. It's endless and all part of the experiance I'm sure... I can't wait to get to run the salt & say I did it.

[dad land]

first off....i have never met a greater bunch of folks at any race venue than land speed racing period. and glen will be the first to see whatever happens cuz,he's in the timing tower! mostly though,some folks go out and nail it in the first year or 2....others spend a life-time trying to acheive their goal. everbody wants to help as this is an attempt of man and machine on the ragged edge we call speed.sustained speed over a measured distance! a whole lot different than some other motor sports! no silver bullet here,almost everything is experimental! and speed varies with the vehicle..but from first hand experience i can tell you that...."THE GREAT WHITE DYNO CAN BE A VERY HUMBLEING PLACE!"i have and probubly will be humbled again. many times! equipment breaks-designs that were not acting the same on the salt as they did on paper!but one thing i know for sure! some folks hit a wall and take their ball to play somewhere else because IT IS TOUGH! others (like myself) may catch the "salt fever and when you do - it's terminal", my friend! bottom line - you ever need help,these folks will actually help their competition to run faster and enjoy the thrill with you! i can't think of any other place i'd rather be!good luck! dad land

[Jim McNaul]

I had lunch with a guy at Speedweek last year who was wearing this nifty little red baseball cap that said "200 MPH" on it. He said it only cost him $250,000 and he was thrilled!
 
 Jim McNaul

[jimmy six]

OUCH!! I've been coming to the salt for 28 years, still have 2 legal vintage cars, held records since 1975 and I'm sure I don't have 60K in everything including the motel and fuel costs. Of course I still have my first Firestone Bonneville tires I bought new for $45 a piece.  Best thing about it I too have that "RED" hat. But it took 28 yrs. Actually only the last 5 yrs. 4 for my son and 1 for me. Now when I throw in the 2004 F-250 diesel I'll need to up the anti. Now on the other hand Keith has spent .

[dad land]

alot more than me i'm sure. but i still admire his attitude and purserverance. go purple suit wearer go!.get around -get around, he gets around! dad

[RaceDeck]

Jim,
 I was a first timer this past year on the salt and I gotta tell you, that the people in this forum and in this type of racing are like no other form of racers I have been around...they are a great bunch of guys and families....I am 100% positive that Glenn does not wish you any harm by the "spin" comment.
 Here is what I learned out there....THere are a lot of really good racers in 'other' types of racing that get whupped by the salt...Because you are good at drag racing, or the ovals, does not mean that you will come out and dazzle....Watch the the "old salt" guys that have been out there for years, listen to what the have to say and if they are giving you any advice...take it!
 I was fortunate enough to have some pretty good guidance out there and a a really reliable motor & car...I had some really good runs on my 4-banger street roadster, but came up short on the "2" club...I made a number of passes at over 200mph but none back-to-back...I am going back again and hope to change that..I have high hopes, but I know that it may take years for everything to just go 100% right again...99% can get you "spinning".

[John Broughan]

Guys, I know in Australia, and I am sure Bonneville is the same, but with more cars and money, that there are many racers that feel they should be running 200, but have engine problems, tire problems, all the things that have been mentioned before. I built a car with the hope of running 200. The car is not everyones idea of a lakester, but you can't worry about stuff like that. It took 4 meetings, a 2 foot stretch to the car, and a new engine setup, but we got there. The car is a belly tank, very simple and relatively inexpensive. The engine is a $400 6 cylinder Toyota 1JZ-GTE, straight from the wrecker, with an $800 2nd hand turbo. Took two meetings with this engine to get things right, but we did it, and scraped in with 204MPH. We are a bit more fortunate in some ways down here, as the car is not classed on the class record, but on the cars past performance and likely spped. This let us run slightly over 200 with under 200 tyres and single fire system etc. The question now is where to next year?
 
 www.users.bigpond.com/jbrough

[53sled]

someone telling me a new guy can't go out and do it because guys have been trying for years, I love bustin' chops like that.

Its hot, at a high altitude, and a little breeze is alot bigger when it has 100 miles of nothing to pick up steam. But go ahead, show em what for. I saw World's Fastest Indian too. Looked easy to break records. These guys that have been innovators for years can't POSSIBLY know whats what.