Author Topic: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?  (Read 15884 times)

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Bellytank1

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Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« on: April 04, 2004, 02:47:00 PM »
Hello,
         My name is Jim and I'm new here. I build hot rods.
 
          I'm seriously wanting to build a 200+ car as cheap and simple as can be, probably a 34 Ford 5win. (real steel) I have but not for sure,, hopefully normally aspirated, but not stuck on this combination as I'm open to anything, but want it to be vintage, no Camaro's Firebirds or late models. I've got a lot of hot rod/street rod parts laying around...
 
 To put it bluntly, I'm trying to find what I want to build. What are the advantages and/or disadvantages & costs involved with a roadster, or coupe or special construction ?
 
 Does one take more to make go fast ? ...or are some a "natural" so to speak ?
 
 I just got the 2004 rulebook and I guess I though it would have more in it than it does.  
 
 I'm looking for the basis of "what works" or "can work" if I work out all the details, or loosely pattern it after someone elses ride which is a time tested tried and true combination...
 
 So I thought I'd ask this here.  If you wanted to build a 200+ car easy to maintain & the least expensive possible to build & run, what would you start with or what immediate direction would you go ?
 
 In other words, who has "the" car you immediately think of , or would model one after (29-34 Ford, bellytank, or special const.) ??  
 
 Are there any other websites or books or ??
 
 I see lots of Bonn. coverage in the old Hot Rod mags and other things we have, but they're all really old technology, & don't necessarily tell a lot about the constructions, what I'm hoping to find as a starting point is a deal like "look at so & so's car, it runs 230, they only have a couple of guys and aren't a megabux operation...
 
 Is there any website that tells about some different cars , their construction, costs, class requirements, etc..?
 
 Hope this makes sense ; ]
 
 Thanks !
 
 Jim

Offline Glen

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2004, 03:11:00 PM »
Jim
 Welcome to the forum. It's a great place to ask and get answers.1st., You should make a trip to Bonneville, see whats there, ask questions and make a lot of new friends. It's your best choice to see what you would like to do with what you have. There are no two cars alike. Lots of racers in that part of the country. You might look at some of the other web sites listed on this one as well. I'm sure you will get several replys today. Good luck.
 Glen
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Offline narider

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2004, 10:16:00 PM »
> Is there any website that tells about some
 > different cars , their construction, costs,
 > class requirements, etc..?
 
 Sounds like a great book Jim. :-) I'm sure there's plenty of ways to do it. Me personally(even though it's a bike), MY effort is to start out down low with smaller motor and build on somthing over the years to where i feel very comfortable when I get to the 200mph effort. Then again.. I've also hopped on a Suzuki Haybusa that we sponsor of Double Busa Racing and have some 200+ records because of it.
 It has sure helped in the building of my own bike.
 It's all in your overall plan I suppose. But it sounds as though you just want to go out and nail 200+. If so you're in the right place with Glen' advice probably being the best advice you're going to get. Can't wait to hear what you decide to do. Best of luck in your adventure.

Offline hawkwind

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2004, 06:09:00 AM »
CHEEP - RACING - 200+  does not compute  down here in Australia  some blokes have built G motor size turbo belly tank specials and achieved 200+ also large block roadsters are capable of 200 and are reasonable  on cost  or go the hayabusa route just add a 40 shot of N2O 200+ guaranteed
slower than most

Offline bigtim44

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2004, 11:08:00 AM »
It took me a while to decide on a car aswell,I wanted something different but traditional ,and I ended up with a Ford 1930 2 door sedan with a roof chop.It's a bit of a brick in view of aerodynamics but it will be fun.
Salty Box Racing #622 B/DT

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2004, 01:37:00 PM »
Welcome to the land of LSR. I understand "cheap" but the word inexpensive lives better here.  As Glen said seeing and observing is your best bet.  Using a "old time" coupe makes for a lot of fun but posses some problems. 200 is your goal now but that soon falls to the "record" and "boy I should done it different". I too use vintage bodies and have no reason to do it any different. Since your goal is 200 I'll try to give the first words on "inexpensive". Before you start your car or choose a class ponder these points. Tires and wheels $1,000.00 to $1500.00,(lot's will tell you how to do it for less) -20 Firesuit(boots& gloves)and helmet $1500.00, 2 firesystems $1,000.00-$1500.00, pretty soon we are going to start working on the car. Some of this can be "borrowed" or bought used but there are your life blood and safety will be first. No chance to be cheap here. So we've spent up to $4500.00 and haven't started. I hope you aren't discouraged yet. The rule book is also a "guideline" no one will tell you what to do.  As you say you are a Hot Rodder who has built many cars, then common sense will build the basics and the other items like roll cages, seats, fuel tanks, etc will be answered in the book. Now for the good part a 700+hp big block will make a 34 Ford go 200. Auto transmissions with big converters work good and 9" Ford is the rear of choice. Simple Huh! As you move along inthe process many will help and some will overhelp you will need to figure out that one. All the racing organizations have their safety check off sheet with their entries and I'm sure will give you one at a meet.  If you can get to Maxton, or El Mirage prior to doing too much you will see what's the "norm" now.  The craftsman ship of the 50's was different not necessarily wrong. As it it today. Good Luck J.D.
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Bellytank1

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2004, 05:18:00 PM »
Thanks all.  Well first , I don't "just want to go 200+". I used to drag race, my car car 189. I've got bikes and have been close on those also. What I'm looking for is sustained "over" 200, like 230-250 and up in vintage tin that seems like it shouldn't be doing this....  
 
 Inexpensive is what I meant, I just commonly use "cheap" in place of it. No I'm not discouraged , I already had all thos ethings figured actually.
 
 I just don't want to start out on the wrong foot with a body that typically doesn't do 250 without stretching the nose way out and making a dragster out of a 34 Ford. I have a 34 3 window coupe that I can chop down more and lay the w/s back to look like the Pierson or Socal coupe, I also have a 34 5 win. that can go that way also.  I guess I was asking about not starting with a car/design that'll cost a ton more than someone elses deal that runs the same speed and is much simpler. I look at some of these special constructions with hand built muti-latched aircraft style access panels and ise water intercoolers, that are tightly packed, hard to work on, hqrd to transport, plumbers nightmares, etc...you start doing all that and you double or triple the cost of building a big block roadtser that'll pop off 180mph first run off the trailer.  
 
 I was reading about some cars that people had built that they couldn't get enough weight in the right places, or the weight dist. right, and they were kind of screwed and stuck to a certain limit/class/speed unless they just sell the whole car and start over on something else, THIS is what I want to avoid big time.
 
 The rule book doesn't address a certain way to build a frame or cage other than the roll bar hoops, so I guess that must be open to just appearing to be a good design. I was thinking in terms of NHRA where they get very particular about what bars go where, thickness, etc. I just figured it would be similar.  
 
 As far as cheap, I just meant I don't really want to build a 40K single purpose, once or twice a year car.  What usually happens is when you start into a new world like this it's easy to take the wrong paths and end up on a road that is going to cost you considerably more then if you would have just talked to some verterans and had them say, "why didn't you just build a turbo roadster and be done with it" ?  I've got a good idea of what it takes to push one that fast as far as horsepower & torque, I've got a blown injected 392 Hemi if needed, but have a 760hp single carb BBC that ought to do it also.
 
 I guess after contemplating and further refining what I meant to ask , it would be easier to ask it this way "who's running 250mph in vintage tin, and what is their basic setup ?"
 
 A big block automatic roadster, a twin turbo or Potvin style blown coupe, or ???
 
 What would be best for me is to actually eyeball cars that are running 250 in pictures, since I've got the time and motivation to get it done before the next meet I really don't want to travel across the country just to look, then come home and start building for next year. I'm ready now and just need to see 250mph cars with my eyes and know a couple of specifics and weight distro's, then I'll have what I need and can finish the car, fine tuning and sneaking up of the goal I can always work out.
 
 So are there any of these guys with websites and stats on what their cars run (speed wise) that also show the construction a little ?
 
 I mean if a Kugel can build a stock bodied Firebird to run 300mph, I'm thinking I can sure build a pointed laid back 34 Ford to crack 200.....
 
 Famous last words huh ?
 
 : ]
 
 Thanks,
 
 Jim

Offline Glen

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2004, 08:07:00 PM »
Jim
 Page 56 of the 2004 rule book is a picture of a 34 ,3 window comp. coupe. Is this whad you are looking to do?? The records are pretty high in these classes.Pg.82 lists blown & un blown records for comp coupe.All of the rules for roll bars and all required safety equipment is in the book and must be read very carefully to comply.
Glen
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landracing

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2004, 10:01:00 PM »
to go those speeds 230-250, first time out pretty tough. Hell thats tough for alot of those cars to do that have been out there for many years. And many years, trust me, it just may be cheaper to buy Joe Laws lakester and then you can go well over 300 mph. "Sustained".....
 Just need a couple of buddies to go in on it with you.
 
 Jonathan Amo

Bellytank1

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2004, 11:18:00 PM »
Thanks. I love a challenge, someone telling me a new guy can't go out and do it because guys have been trying for years, I love bustin' chops like that. There's one sure way to light an undying fire under me to do accomplish something it's to try and say I can't do it. I'm sincerely glad you posted this and tried to tell me I should go buy someone elses 100K operation. At this point I'll just say watch for the guy from Illinois who's never been to Bonneville before and what he does......
 
 Thanks !
 
 JIm

Offline Glen

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
Do it first and then brag. I'll be the first to see you spin.
Glen
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Bellytank1

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2004, 11:27:00 PM »
I didn't brag, I just said hide & watch. I think I've had enough of this board now, I can see the clicky attitudes already.

Bellytank1

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2004, 11:32:00 PM »
You know what, another thing, "I'll be the first to see you spin" , that's just about the same as saying "I'll laugh when you crash". And anyone that says that in motorsports is a low down piece of garbage to put it mildly.

shiva

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2004, 03:16:00 AM »
lol thats just foul, the same person that greets you ends up getting pissy because you brag and suggests an ill fate for you.
 
 atleast you could just say "hope you dont hit 160" or something...
 
 wish i had something positive to contribute, but i dont have any experience with lsr except 1 trip out to el mirage, and in pc siimulations.     :)

Offline narider

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Re: Want to run over 200 , what to build ?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2004, 12:31:00 PM »
Jim, someday you'll likely look back at Glen's words and realize that experience talks truth and that he was simply saying "keep your goals high, but your expectations low", although his words were fact.. he WILL BE THERE. If what he said was hard enough to get thru your skin this may not be a good venue of racing for you. Everyone helps everyone in one way or another, it's all in your outlook of whether it's valuable help. I've learned more from one specific member here that I really didn't like(almost despised) when I met him. He has been a very large help in my endeavors and I listen to his every word today - whether I like what he has to say or not. He's been where I want to go!
 There's very few that go out and do what they were expecting in the first few years and as most constantly raise that bar you may never be there.
 Remember advice is free and you can throw away what you don't think you'll need.
 Then again, maybe all this will piss you off enough to make you go and do it right off the bat.. only time will tell.
 Again, best of luck to you - seriously. I hope to see your name in the books and you offering REAL advice to others someday.