Author Topic: alternator on m/c  (Read 6131 times)

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Offline NXmarty

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alternator on m/c
« on: December 13, 2007, 06:57:30 PM »
Hello LSR junkies,
                      I would like to hear from someone about Using or Not using an alternator on my LSR bike for 08.
 I am not concerned about rules, just about if anyone uses a "total loss" system, does your battery have enuf for 3+ miles?I run a very good drycell battery, it has always been enuf to run my NX and motor for a couple of 1/4 mile blasts. I am converting my dragbike to LSR and was curious. Thanks Marty

Offline hawkwind

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2007, 07:46:50 PM »
for what its worth ,use the alternator ,your electronics will love you for it  :-D
cheers
slower than most

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2007, 08:14:00 PM »
Battery? No problem!!



For my money I would run total loss. It's just a function of battery size. Total run time is less than 10 minutes at Bonneville on the long course.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline sockjohn

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2007, 08:46:19 PM »
for what its worth ,use the alternator ,your electronics will love you for it  :-D
cheers

...and the dyno won't lie.  Try it and find out, you may be surprised to be losing power as the battery drops in voltage.

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2007, 09:08:35 PM »
keep your charging system working...
kent

Offline Stainless1

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2007, 10:11:37 PM »
If you keep the charging system you won't need to charge the battery every run...  :|
You also will not be using all the HP your motor makes to go fast...  :-o
Is your battery large enough to start the bike twice and run the bike for 15 minutes and still have a running load voltage above 12.5 VDC at the end of 15 minutes?  If so, use your HP to go fast, if not spend a HP or 2 on electricity....
We have never had a stator in a race motor, car or bike.
Your results may vary...  :roll:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2007, 10:18:42 PM »
Got to agree with Sockjohn.  I run a total loss battery and coil ignition.  If I try to make two runs at El Mirage on the same battery I will lose around 5 mph on the second run.  I usually have two batteries with me.  Running at Bonneville this year I noticed a drop off in performance by the 2 mile marker.  If you can run some way of charging I would go with that.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline panchop

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2007, 10:30:56 PM »
I ran a total loss on my turbo z900 at BUBs this year. I run two standard motorcycle batteries and was using a Dyna ignition.

Offline hayaboosta

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 12:00:51 AM »
I know that a 'Busa will begin to run funky below 12.5v.  That may not be a desired effect with some nitrous. 
200 MPH Club X 7
Bonneville  "Naked"
 El Mirage    "Naked"
  Maxton       "Naked"
   Mojave        "Naked"
    Loring          "Naked"
     Bub 201       "Naked"
      Texas           "Clothed" (by accident)

racin jason

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2007, 01:32:05 AM »
not the best idea to slow down the fuel pump on nitrous as the battery runs down,
keep the charging system.

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 09:20:19 AM »
Reading the replies from the best in the business makes me realize that if you have ever had a drop in voltage that affected performance you would be really pissed and never do it again.

That's a valid gripe, but not enough of one to throw away performance turning an alternator. What is the load? Not much, but I always consider that on the parasitic drag side of the equation.

The load on the electrical is an unknown. At least to most of you. It is a number that can be calculated or discerned through testing. Reading the actual amperage while it's running on the dyno will tell you that. The trade off is the weight of a larger battery, or batteries.

I'm surprised to hear the really fast guys being conservative on this. You know the competition is staying up nights thinking of ways to beat your record!
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Sumner

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2007, 09:52:26 AM »
.............I'm surprised to hear the really fast guys being conservative on this..............

That might be why they are the really fast guys  :-),

Sum


Offline NXmarty

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2007, 01:13:37 PM »
Hey Guys,
            Some valid and not so valid points, I will do more investigating on this, You see, it is not so easy to reinstall my charging system on my bike, and since I will be running all motor, I will have to call the manufacturer to see some stats on my Hi pro dry cell.
           

Offline JimL

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2007, 02:42:41 AM »
I'll throw in my 2 cents here.  I'm a big fan of a dual battery system and no alternator (especially eliminating the rectifier area of the system).  I've had good success running the secondary ignition system at 18 volts by using a Honda Minitrail 6V battery in series with the 12V power.  At face value, this would seem to be a problem for the coils, but at high RPM the saturation (dwell) time is so short that the extra voltage only gets you back to typical lower RPM charge point.  I was taught this trick by the guys running American Indy Racing Leage, who use it to make the Menards keep firing at very high boost levels and RPM (yes...they really do have a little Minitrail battery in the right side pod! even with a charging system).  It is really helpful for the turbo guys, and is most important if you get a little lean at any point in the map.  Make a big enough spark and you've got a fighting chance the burn will occur in the cylinder, instead of across the exhaust valve face.

If your ECM needs particular voltage range (typically a little under 12 to just under 16) you can series through an extra 1.5 to 3 volts to be sure of the system.  All the control functions are running internal 5V limiters, it's just the speed of controllers and drivers that are looking for the solid 12V+.  I hear that some of the stand alone systems are pretty sensitive to voltage drop, but I never had a problem with my Pectel system.  If you run your injectors at higher voltage, they will absolutely snap open on time (they sure do close on time regardless of the voltage!....ever notice that!) 

Keep in mind that your ECM looks (should- but not all do) at battery voltage to make injection duration adjustments.  If your duty cycle is too far extended (beyond stock), the low voltage issues will really get you lean.  You can separate the input voltage to trick a stock computer into adding time by feeding the injectors at 15-18 volts, but keep the ECM B+ (12-14V).  You'll get fairly linear enrichment in the highest torque portion of your map/power curve (up there where the frequency starts to get close together).

Over the years, I've had problems with diode failures in charging systems that can take a battery down SOOO fast.  It just seems like simpler is better, in this case.  If you want to hold fuel pump voltage stable, independant of the ECM or secondary voltage, run the 12+6V and use a limiter to maintain exact pressure..... or....do like I did and run a separate battery for the pump (meaning I had 2 12Volt batteries and one 6 volt battery on the racer).

Kinda rambling on here...happens when it gets late at night and you start getting old.  Regards, JimL


Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: alternator on m/c
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2007, 01:01:17 PM »
keep the charging system...
kent
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 01:03:37 PM by 1212FBGS »