Author Topic: What is Fair?  (Read 9573 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

dwarner

  • Guest
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2007, 08:42:51 AM »
Because that is the way the Classic petitioners wanted the classes setup. The restrictions point to the El Mirage Championship. If you have a roadster you have the ability to enter way more classes at a single Bonneville meet than there are days available.

DW

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1522
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2007, 11:02:46 AM »
Next year will will be running the turbo motor (and hopefully have the handling issue resolved) the records in that class are 0 and 205 done by Bob Norwood.....

Done in a car legal for GT in the ModSports class and beating the old record by (if I can remember) 50 mph!

If a guy can build a car to compete in one class and then be able to enter it into a class that offers the ability to do numerous mods and still be able to set records with a definite disadvantage....I say more power to em. This is one reason why I am running in this class....after all, Bob had a stock bodied car and was still able to get it to run, my car has anything but a stock body....hope it helps!
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

"Sometimes it is impossible to deal with her, but most of the time she is very sweet, and if you caress her properly she will sing beautifully."
*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2007, 11:52:50 AM »
Doing more with less is the type of thing that is at the heart of this event and constantly grates the big monies that believe the World is theirs to own.
If you can keep that in focus, the successes will be priceless. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline desotoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2816
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2007, 01:35:05 AM »
Because that is the way the Classic petitioners wanted the classes setup. The restrictions point to the El Mirage Championship.

DW

Thanks Dan,

I did not know that was the wording they had when they petitioned for the class. Thanks for the information I appreciate it.

Tom G.
I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline KeithTurk

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2007, 07:45:37 AM »
Like all things political the class rules got a little bent to appease folks after we all voted... but the "classic" category came out fairly well over all... they just didn't want anyone to use it as a tool to win the points gig at El Mirage... and that is fair.

Dan... thanks for all you have done both here and in the rule book...

K
Keith Turk
 D Gas Modified Sports
 246.555 mph

dwarner

  • Guest
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2007, 08:39:38 AM »
Keith,

No problem - I wouldn't have to do this stuff if you guys didn't race.

DW

Offline John Nimphius

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2007, 01:04:35 PM »
For those who don't make the rules learning how to play the game is a requirement.  Condemning them when they do is inappropriate.

Offline PorkPie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2043
  • think fast.....always
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2007, 02:14:59 PM »
Since when is wrong to be smart....and BTW....Keith done some bad experience with the rule book some years ago.......and since this days he knows the rule book content from page 1 to the end.....

Well done, Keith, Tonya, Dave
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline tortoise

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2007, 02:25:16 PM »
. . .they just didn't want anyone to use it as a tool to win the points gig at El Mirage... and that is fair.
Are the rules for the El Mirage points championship printed anywhere, or is this like the secret handshake, available only to members of an SCTA approved Member Club?

JohnR

  • Guest
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2007, 02:42:21 PM »
Are the rules for the El Mirage points championship printed anywhere, or is this like the secret handshake, available only to members of an SCTA approved Member Club?

They are posted on the SCTA-BNI website, where anybody unencumbered by conspiracy theories can find them after a 10 second search.   :roll:

http://www.scta-bni.org/SCTA-NewWeb/El%20Mirage/ELM%2007/El%20Mirage%20Procedures%2007.pdf

Offline tortoise

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2007, 03:48:08 PM »
They are posted on the SCTA-BNI website, where anybody unencumbered by conspiracy theories can find them after a 10 second search.   :roll:
:oops: Thanks!

Offline desotoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2816
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2007, 08:11:21 PM »
Like all things political the class rules got a little bent to appease folks after we all voted... but the "classic" category came out fairly well over all... they just didn't want anyone to use it as a tool to win the points gig at El Mirage... and that is fair.

K

Hi Keith,

That is where I get confused. To win a points championship at El Mirage you cannot jump Car Classes. It is OK to change engine classes. The only advantage you could possibly have at El Mirage if you changed Car classes would be a starting line advantage. But for the Championship you must be entered in the same Car Class or Bike Class. So for the purposes of the championship the sentence about once entered in a Classic Class you must remain in the Classic Class for remainder of the year would not matter. Also at Bonneville it would make no difference. I feel it should be removed at least as far as Bonneville competition goes.

Tom G.

PS. By bringing this out and talking about it maybe some good can come from it. If Keith and Dave were not allowed to run in the Comp Coupe Class because they ran Classic first, I would have also brought this Topic up.

Here is a copy of the El Mirage Procedures that pertains to Championship points.

C. High Points Champion

An entrant’s points accumulation during the season cannot be combined if an entrant is competing for High Points Champion. ALL other competitors may combine their points for the purpose of starting line position. Vehicles that race in two or more body classifications during a season cannot combine the points earned in each classification toward High Point Champion. All entry form/VLB data must be identical throughout a season, except engine class. For example, an “altered” can’t switch to a “comp coupe” mid-season. The points earned in each body group will not be combined toward High Points Champion.

        1. Lifetime Memberships – are awarded to the number one automobile and the number one motorcycle points champions each year. The auto champion will receive life memberships for 2 persons, and the motorcycle points champion will receive life memberships for 2 persons. To qualify for number one championship and the life membership, a competitor must be a member in good standing of the SCTA, compete in the same body or frame class during the current season and use the same entry name and number. Each competitor’s name must appear on every entry form as entry name, owner or driver throughout the racing season.
I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline KeithTurk

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2007, 11:53:31 PM »
Bonneville and El mirage are different in that you can't change class's at an El Mirage event... thou you can change your class between events at El Mirage...  Bonneville allows class changes during the event....  The rules states that  entering a car in the Classic category will cause it to remain in that category for the current racing season....

So that having been said.... if we go to El Mirage after this event the car must remain in the classic category for the rest of the year...  Don't confuse the engine class with the term Category... we can still whittle on engine sizes... we are just stuck in the classic category...

There are things that a fella could do to switch back and forth between the classic and normal modified category's... like adding fuel injection for example....  basically doubling a car's ability to hold records at El Mirage...  ultimately giving it an unfair advantage in the points chase over say a streamliner or a more traditional comp coupe....

Basically We feel the rule is fair as written and simply used what we had avalible to get the job done...

Keith
Keith Turk
 D Gas Modified Sports
 246.555 mph

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2007, 12:12:49 AM »
JUST FOR THE RECORD

If you are already a Life Member and don't care about the points chase at EM, what is to prevent you from getting another number each event, score Club points and accumulate multiple class records along the way ?

WATCH  :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline RidgeRunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
Re: What is Fair?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2007, 08:37:01 AM »
JUST FOR THE RECORD

If you are already a Life Member and don't care about the points chase at EM, what is to prevent you from getting another number each event, score Club points and accumulate multiple class records along the way ?

WATCH  :wink:

     Henry Y's eternal flame continues to burn bright, he's gotta' be smilin' at you with approval Jack.