Hayabusa Engines in Car Classes

[kiwi]

A short chain run to a jackshaft would live if it was fully enclosed in an oil bath.

[JackD]

A short chain run to a jackshaft would live if it was fully enclosed in an oil bath.

Multi row chains with smaller links are better suited to short runs than the fat stuff in common use for open final drives.
Preheated oil from the engine is most effective if introdiced to the chain on the inside of the run.

[landracing]

A short chain run to a jackshaft would live if it was fully enclosed in an oil bath.

You mean something like this,,, Why dont you ask Ack how that worked out.... And about some of trial and tribulations of this system...

http://www.landracing.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=114&pos=18

Jon

[Jonny Hotnuts]

I am surprised to see that the ack did not use 2 530 chains for their final drive as appose to the single 530. On a jack you would have all the room you need to add another sprocket and chain (and the rear wheel should not be a problem).

Rick Y. mentioned that it is not all that uncommon for his machine to break a chain....(and he cryos his own) and this is with a single turbo busa motor......I would think that 2 motors would be almost a given that you would eat'em

I am working on a billet extended busa countershaft (for 2 countershaft sprockets) and a clutch master cover that will double as a end support for the shaft. It has always been my opinion that the chain does not fail because it is not constantly oiled....if fails because the extreme pressure causes a pin to gall, seize and burn through a link. I get about 3-4K miles on my personal bike with a 530 (turbo busa) with proper maintenance, if a chain fails in 5 miles it is because it was not designed for the amount of psi it is under.

I figure divided the drive will be reliable for 8-9 hundred HP, this is better then asking a chain that is only good for 400 HP to handle 700+ (or in the case of 2X motors) 1400HP.

Hope to have it on in 08, will post pics of the shaft progress after the 15th or so.


-JH

[836dstr]

Moreland-Noonan-Lux are running a new H/G REMR with a Busa. Currently leading the points race @ El Mirage. It's low and light. Went 168 in July.

3 records in 3 meets.  Hum? I'd say there is some potential there.

Tom

[1212FBGS]

jh
ack does use 2 chains... one on each side or the wheel.....hey by curiosity what 2 motors are ya gonna put together that will make a combined 1400hp? ya see i run a twin engined liner... each one of my motors makes 460 hp.. combined they make 787 hp... much to the disagreements of alot of "know it all's" on this board.... combining motors together DOES NOT DOUBLE HP... IT DOUBLES TORQUE... but does NOT double hp.... I HAVE proven this on the dyno. and your assumptions are wrong about chains. last year 2 of my 7 chains made it to the 5 mile marker.. of the 5 chains that "snapped" absolutely none of them "galled, seized or burned through a link" like you described...everyone who saw my chains were amazed at the condition they were in.... your on a steep learning curve... good luck.
kent

[JackD]

In a twin engined setup, HP losses can be attributed to the methods used to connect them to the final drive and will vary with the setup.
Double row chains and sprockets are standard items that will do better than two independent runs that are close and side by side.
One chain on each side of the wheel is not a common practice but does tend to equalize the forces that have been the cause of some "get offs" on open bikes.

[1212FBGS]

ummmm..... nope jack!... my test were done as "in running condition" with all coupling chains in place... front motor only, 456hp to the rear wheels... then start and test rear motor only, 464hp to the rear wheels..... then run and test both motor 787.......all this was done with all coupling in place..... i know you guys claim "you got losses...".... bullshit.... doubling motors DOES NOT DOUBLE HP.... "PERIOD" I tested your theories..... it does not work.... but it does double torque 
kent

[JackD]

I don't quote theories, but depend on practices.
It is like a fat guy and a skinny guy on a scale together.
The scale only knows the total . LOL

[kiwi]

ummmm..... nope jack!... my test were done as "in running condition" with all coupling chains in place... front motor only, 456hp to the rear wheels... then start and test rear motor only, 464hp to the rear wheels..... then run and test both motor 787.......all this was done with all coupling in place..... i know you guys claim "you got losses...".... bullshit.... doubling motors DOES NOT DOUBLE HP.... "PERIOD" I tested your theories..... it does not work.... but it does double torque 
kent

This does seem rather mysterious. So when you say the torque doubles, you are presumably referring to peak torque. So at this point on the dyno graph hp would also be double. Then as the rpm increases to max hp the torque readings must somehow fall away to less than double of the single engine readings at the equivelent point.
So were the torque readings double all the way up to peak torque and from then on less than double?

[LittleLiner]

 . . . .  until the board decided you couldn't put a motorcycle motor in any car but special construction. 
Good thing someone from out west thought of it so it can be done now...  Lotsa smart guys out there... 

The ruling you refer to is apparently no longer the case.  Toward the end of 2004 I asked SCTA if it would be OK to use a bike engine is a gas coupe.  They said OK.  I have the email approval from the SCTA coupe and sedan committee.   I doubt I was the first to get such an approval and I know that York PA is west of Philadelphia but no one ever referred to me as being "someone from out west." 

This thread has been helpful.  I am currently in the fifth year of my two year project (no, that ain't a typo) building a gas coupe with a bike engine.  In my Gas Coupe class car I am also concerned about clutch and transmission.  I am not worried about handling the horsepower since I am running a stock engine.  I am worried about the considerable extra weight and huge addition of aero resistance.  I am using a small car but the aero push will still be lots and lots more than the bike engine usually encounters.

Also, somewhere in here the question was asked if a Honda bike engine would be legal in a GT class Honda car.  Makes me wonder about a CBR1000RR in a Honda CRX (I/GT) or Honda Del Sol or a Honda S2000.  Maybe a CX 650 turbo in an Insight (J/BGT).   

[JackD]

LL
Read it again carefully.
 The rule was never enacted and the president was set before the board could rule against it.
There is a great howling about it but nothing of substance has come of it.
MC engines are cheap and easy, but are not the maximum power plants that are available from other forms of car based motor sports.
The obsolete Cosworth BDT that was used in GTP stuff is just one example.
When other series change their formulas as they often do, many power plants become a lot more available.
The Buick "STOCK BLOCK" formerly used at indy is another example and will bolt up to SBC stuff.

[dwarner]

The most recent campaign was to keep M/C engines out of Vintage Category cars, think roadsters. That was a battle I was on for three years I think. Lost that one, on to the next.

DW

[John Nimphius]

DW

It's easy to see your point about MC engines in vintage classes.  However, with the H engine class the high HP non MC engines that fit are not that common and would be difficult and expensive for a low budget racer.

John

[desotoman]

ya see i run a twin engined liner... each one of my motors makes 460 hp.. combined they make 787 hp... much to the disagreements of alot of "know it all's" on this board.... combining motors together DOES NOT DOUBLE HP... IT DOUBLES TORQUE... but does NOT double hp.... I HAVE proven this on the dyno.
kent

Kent,
    Thanks for the information. Along time ago I posted a topic about coupling motors together, and how I was told by someone in the 1980's that coupling motors together doubled torque but not HP. Thanks for confirming what they told me.

    Now I have a question for you. Does it matter what way you couple the motors together? In other words does firing the motors together as one big 4 cylinder motor give you more torque than firing two 4 cylinder motors as a V-8? Thanks for any help.

Tom G.