Hayabusa Engines in Car Classes

[JackD]

I guess i don't understand why a chain drive motor won't work in a front motored position with the simple addition of a driveshaft.
Am I missing something and is My opel GT with the Kawi Ninja turbo a mistake ?
It regularly wins at both autocross and the drags driven by HS autoshop students.

[John Nimphius]

Slim

Your ability to pick up the small errors of others is well known.  My ability to make HUGE embarrassing errors is now also well known.  Maybe the correction edit will keep me from being banned from further technical discussion.

John

[John Nimphius]

Jack

It has long been clear to me that I rarely have a completely original idea.  To think that you haven't been there before is so obvious I never thought it required acknowledgment.

John

[JackD]

'When someone says the wheel is not possible, often they find they have had their other foot run over by someone that already has the wheel in use.
Thinking of questions that produce answers, that produce results, is the best way to start and never should be discounted.
Starting early helps , but you have to stay late also." (me)

You are doing just fine. 

[jimmy six]

The current 4 wheel points leader at El Mirage is a rear engine modified roadster using High-ya-busa power....

[GeneF]

Gene / JH

I agree that a rear engined car provides a more adaptable use for a motorcycle engine. The idea I have sketched out for a front engine application turns the engine 90 degrees and uses a chain to an offset drive shaft and conventional rear axle.  Gene is that how the vehicles in your pictures are set up?

John

 Those pics are just ones I snag off the internet, so I really don't know for sure how they are set up. However I am certain they are probably like about all Dwarf/Ledgend/Lotus-clone cars, no chain involved, just a adapter that replaces the primary sprocket and accepts a standard Dana u-joint. Heres some pics to help explaine. FWIW-Winters now offers a Q/C especially for M/C powered cars, but only comes with a low (high numerical) R/P.

 I think a f/e chain drive car is doable but the long run of the chain could be a problem. On my mini sprint, I had about a 3+ ft. chain run and it was always a weak point. Of course it was pitched hard into the turns with a lot of suspension travel, that you wouldn't encounter in straight line racing. With enough chain tensioners and guides it might be fine (?) I would think a direct chain drive to a live axle (think go-kart) wouldn't suck up near the H.P. a conventional drive shaft-rear end would, JMHO. 

[GeneF]

Here's a pic of the above adapter installed on a Yammy R-1

[John Nimphius]

Gene

I was aware of the Dwarf/Legend car approach with a drive shaft to a rear axle.  I was just looking for another home built way to go at it and take advantage of the faster and more flexible chain/sprocket gear ratio changes.  I agree it's going to have more frictional losses than a straight chain/live axle set up.

John

[Sumner]

Gene

I was aware of the Dwarf/Legend car approach with a drive shaft to a rear axle.  I was just looking for another home built way to go at it and take advantage of the faster and more flexible chain/sprocket gear ratio changes.  I agree it's going to have more frictional losses than a straight chain/live axle set up.

John

     

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/construction%20page-32.html



 http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/construction%20page-48.html   

     

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/construction%20page-13.html

Wish I could tell you all of this is going to work, but I don't know yet  .  If you are going to use a chain some of this info might be valuable to you and then it again it might not.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/construction%20page-47.html

c ya,

Sum

[Stainless1]

We were planning to put that one in our GT Zagato and run MS, until the board decided you couldn't put a motorcycle motor in any car but special construction. 
Good thing someone from out west thought of it so it can be done now...  Lotsa smart guys out there... 

Did you receive a formal, written decision on that question?

The next question is would a 'Busa motor in a Suzuki car or Honda motorcycle motor  in a Honda car be legal for GT?

We received our ruling via phone, no email or instant written communication except fax in 1984, and a fax was rare then.  It was 10 days before the races started when we got the word.  In retrospect, it forced us to the streamliner to lakester conversion, and that turned out OK.

Read the rules, as others have already said, mixing manufacturers makes you MS.
See ya on the salt 

[John Nimphius]

Sum

Been through your build information and pictures many times.  It is one of the things that led to this current discussion.  By the way I go to your site a few times a week looking for what's next, keep the updates coming. 

Planning to stop by and say hi during SpeedWeek, hope that's OK.

John

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Gene / JH

I agree that a rear engined car provides a more adaptable use for a motorcycle engine. The idea I have sketched out for a front engine application turns the engine 90 degrees and uses a chain to an offset drive shaft and conventional rear axle.  Gene is that how the vehicles in your pictures are set up?

John

One if the issues in using a MC motor is that the motor by nature was designed to have the rear sprocket behind and near level with the countershaft.
 
This would mean that the 90 deg. motors output shaft would need to be near level with the driveline and far enough over for sprocket clearance (can be somewhat large depending on gearing). This would make it the setup wide and low (may or may not work for a roadster. Or you could use a "jackshaft" behind the motor and second sprocket to a centered driveline and have two chains (not my favorite idea).

I have however, found a way to allow a busa motor to have its drive sprocket directly under the countershaft. It involves removing the stock water pump in lue for an electric (and blocking the hole with a BBC freeze plug) and doing a slight modification to the clutch slave support cover. This would allow you to mount the motor in the car at 90 and have almost a centered driveline. This is how I mounted my motor and it makes for a very tidy package (and the electric WP will give you a few extra HP).



BTW:
I never said it COULDNT be done.....only that a rear engine setup solves a few headaches....
I will buy John a bottle of Advil if he makes a go at it.

[JackD]

Short runs of chain for example to a jackshaft are short lived.
You might consider taking a drive shaft to the pinion and if you must have a wide selection of drive ratios, don't fail to consider other selections in the trans you already have.
Remember the potential to build a quick change on the input shaft of the pumpkin with standard available dirt track gears.
Remember, every time you turn the corner with power, some will fall off the bus.

[Sumner]

..............Planning to stop by and say hi during SpeedWeek, hope that's OK.

John

Sure hope you do!!  Looking forward to meeting a lot of people on here that I haven't met before  .

I thought you had probably seen the stuff I'm trying to do, but thought their might be some new guys reading this that might not of seen it and I'm always open to criticism on what I'm doing and open to change.  Like I'm going to probably add a jack shaft before I run since I'm not running this year and think it will give me flexibility with gearing with a busa motor that runs at lot lower rpm's than the 750 I have now.

c ya,

Sum

[John Nimphius]

Lots of good ideas going back and forth here.  There's got to be a winner or two in in the mix.