Wet versus Dry Nitrous Systems

[landracing]

I would HIGHLY suggest not running the same plug Jon W ran as posted above....

Jon

[1212FBGS]

awh Jon... ya don't like those dual projected tip glow plugs..lol or should we just call them detonators?
kent

[Flyboy]

Jon it sounds like you want to tell your story. Go ahead. If you can prevent "one wasted trip to Bonneville" for another rider, I'm sure many others would like to hear-- Wrong plugs or what?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

There are two "Jon" racers in this conversation, and I'm not sure which of us you're asking.  Here's my story:

I had made runs in gas class and chose to switch the bike over to fuel (nitrous) for a run.  I fired up the laptop and entered the data for fuel, including the timing and fuel injection changes.

What I did not do is push the "F12" button (or whatever one it was) that sends the new program from the laptop to the bike's ECU.  Ergo, I'm moseying down the track, push the button, feel the surge of power, hear the blast of damaged engine, said some choice words under my breath, and that's the end of the story.  Joe and Jonathon came over and watched my shattered ego, they helped open up the motor to see that it was terminal damage, and so it went.

The "gas" program is way leaner than the nitrous program -- so while the motor was running okay for a while -- being calibrated right for the gas -- when I hit the button it went very lean very quickly.  First went the spark plugs, then the piston.  That's the specific playback.

Thanks, Amo brothers and everyone else that helped me that sad day.  I sure hope it doesn't happen again.

[joea]

Jon W. that was just one catastrophic failure.....there have
been others....yes.....

sometimes the most high profile performance shops dont end
up facilitating the most successful results at Bonn...

flyboy this is where the advice stacks up and starts to take
different twists and turns..........

i have in the past tried to help some with what i like.....folks
will do what they feel is best in the end.........

one thing is for sure.....everyone has the chance to learn something
along the way..........

[Flyboy]

Joea--

Got my kit today and went through the manual along with the 14 manual. Can you guys tell me where the best place is to put the floggers on a fuel injection system. Thanks.

[landracing]

Flyboy,

Can't help you there on placement.. However on Joe's bike, we used the old school Lectrons, with an old school Zx10.. It went 226 one way... 223 average for the two runs... on 998cc. He put the nozzles after the carbs before the head, Some tap the bottom area around on the head on intake port.

What type of system did you get, dry, wet, four nozzle setup or single???

What you need is some of the "Team Amo Anti Galling Compound".... What do you think keeps the bikes together... Thats the secret to nitrous for distance on the salt.... I cant tell you whats in it, but I can sell you a quart of it...  IF Jon Wennerberg would have used it....

Jon

[Flyboy]

Galling compound? Sounds great. Someday you'll have to tell me the ingredients. But I'll tell you one of my secrets for fast speed. Viagra. Dropped a tablet in my tank and got another 5 mph. Many times I can't rise to the occasion but my bike seems to come through

I got the NOS wet kit 3008 (four cylinder) from Schnitz. It seems pretty straight forward except for the electronics. Now I need to find a 20 gallon storage container. Was told to go to a car nitrous shop. This weekend is the Moto GP only 30 minutes away at Laguna. There must be 20,000 motorcycles on the highway around my house right now and I don't have a bike to ride. Oh well, Bonneville comes first--

[joea]

"anti"...galling compound
flyboy, save yourself alot of pain and cash..........

go to your nearest favorite air-products business that
carries gases.........

get a bottle with 20 yr (or whatever) lease.....and get
your nitrous there.......

nitrous is generally around 1/2 the price of what the performance
shops are charging..........

Joe

[1212FBGS]

fly boy
this is where you need to be care full on advise......if you ask an Amo to apply the secrete anti galling compound he's gonna pee on your bike.... thats the true part!
kent
ps
Shawn Gann has one or the fastest nos and fastest all motor busa and he puts his nozzles in the velocity stacks!!! claims it is less sensitive and has never had a nos cough that bends the throttle plates.... but that also reminds me of when Broc Davidson blew his air box up... it pulled the gas tank mounting bolts out of the frame and knocked him off the bike... the nos explosion literally blew him and the tank off the bike....
nos is cool stuff! hey good luck.....

[Flyboy]

Kent,

Thanks for the update on the Amos. I had the opportunity to meet them last year on another site. As long as I can learn from them I can put up with their....Bonneville humor?--

[1212FBGS]

shoot i just read my post and i was being a ahole again...
flyboy
put your nozzles in the head, use braided hose instead of that poly crap, use a funnel style distribution blocks, use a 5lb or larger bottle and plan on using 1 bottle per pass so your pressure will be the same. start collecting bottles and like joe said find a gracious supplier for refills. get a schnitz pro series 2 ignition box and use the nos controller function. set it at 30% start and build to 100% over 4 seconds. pull your ignition timing back 7 degrees over 3 seconds. oh and make sure you tell schnitz you need the expanded chip cuz there stock config box will shut off at something like 20 seconds and you'll need a safe 200 sec.
as for the motor pull the head and install 1mm larger ex valves. ceramic coat your pistons, the combustion chamber and the complete ex port( it will make removing melted piston material easier) degree your cams and open the lobe center up a little (not familiar with zx12 but 104-108 might be a good starting point) oh what else.... oh toss and dont even think of running the stock spark plugs... use the stock heat range maybe 1 colder but you cant run a projected tip plug... you gotta find a surface gap plug OR YOU WILL MELT DOWN..... have a good arming switch and use the horn button but also use a wot throttle switch so you can peddle it.... then get a graduated beaker and start flowing your system.. get really really familiar with your jets.. your jets are your freinds.. your jets will save your motors life... get very very familiar with them and save them the rest of your life. flow your syslem for a full 100 seconds and it will be good.... oh when you build a flow system put a sensitive pressure gage on the fuel side and watch it very close about 40 seconds in.. if the pressure starts climbing your nozzles are starting to freeze up thats why i recomend putting your nozzles in your head. well thats about it for now... do these things and you'll have a good hun shot for a full 3 miles... if it doesnt work.. try the Amo anti galling compound.
alright my good deed is done for the week
kent

[Speed Limit 1000]

Flyboy,

 He put the nozzles after the carbs before the head
Jon

Nice looking manifolds on Joes bike, does he want to sell them
John

[Stainless1]

Wow, you could have skipped the first 3 pages and read the compilation of suggestions in Kent's post.  The only change is 10lb bottle will be required.  A 5 will run out before you get to the end.  If you come by to chat on the salt I'll make 1 more suggestion to help keep your pressure in the area you know it is in.  Don't know what solenoids came with you kit, but for big, long shots, you need the largest ones you can find.  Little ones will freeze up and the gas one needs to be flowed to ensure you can give it enough fuel.
OK, when the little one freezes open, after you release the button, the gas stops but the N20 keeps going, wanna know what happens a half a second later? 

[landracing]

OK, when the little one freezes open, after you release the button, the gas stops but the N20 keeps going, wanna know what happens a half a second later? 

Something like this??? That wasn't from Nozzle freezing up,,, however could end up same result.