Alternative fuel racers

[bak189]

HOW TIMES CHANGE!!!!!!!!!.........................................
In my earlier live I was involved in developing and designing
vehicles to run on CNG.....................I thought it would be a great to race one of our LSR sidecars on CNG.......the sidecar platform could hold the tank.............checked with the officials..........ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, NOT SAFE!!!!!!!
HOW TIMES CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!........................................
(may try it again...who knows)

[sockjohn]

HOW TIMES CHANGE!!!!!!!!!.........................................
In my earlier live I was involved in developing and designing
vehicles to run on CNG.....................I thought it would be a great to race one of our LSR sidecars on CNG.......the sidecar platform could hold the tank.............checked with the officials..........ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, NOT SAFE!!!!!!!
HOW TIMES CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!........................................
(may try it again...who knows)

Did they go into why they thought it was unsafe?

I've seen pictures of CNG powered trucks hit by a train, the CNG tank was the only thing recognizable after the fact.

A gas that gets blown away quickly seems safer than a liquid fuel that will puddle. I don't have any real experience with it, but lots of offroad rock crawlers use it for this reason.  Getting upside down and leaking fuel everywhere is bad!

[JackD]

I hope it wasn't me.

[bak189]

NO, Jack is was not you!!!!! I don't want publish any names of the old and dead...............................
CNG is compressed natural gas in a high pressure
tank ...... like a welding cyl. The gas is  approx. at 2000 PSI. it is controlled by two regulators (1 high......1 low) The only danger is if the valve were to break off..... the cyl. would "fly away"........ if not properly mounted.  The gas would not burn or explode.........................................................................
it is safer than petrol (gasoline) and it has a approx. octane of 120......it makes great horsepower in a high comp. engine.
LNG is natural gas in liquid form and can be dangerous  .......the LSR streamliner Blue Flame used LNG for it's power...............

[JackD]

This is where I could say stuff about the "Old and Dead"  we still have around, but I am so shy.

[1212FBGS]

bak
you mean you wanted to use a cylinder like a nitrogen tank(1800psi) like so many other people use? or maybe like a NOS tank (900psi)hummmm i wonder.... whats the difference? were you turned down recently?
kent

[JackD]

There Ya go Kent, stirring the pot !  LOL

[Greyboy]

Hydrogen seems to be safer than liquid fuels; in a rupture it dissipates quickly (into the atmosphere); and apparently it was not the cause of the Hindenburg disaster.. the flames were red-orange, not the blue of hydrogen burning. Seems safe enough to strap a big ol' tank of that to your sidecar and going for broke...

[Robin UK]

Blue Flame did use LNG but only as the minor part of a bi-propellant mix. Hydrogen peroxide was the main fuel. If you read any stories - and there are plenty - about BF only using H202 with no LNG added, ignore them. Dick Keller confirms that all runs were in bi-propellant mode, albeit severely "detuned" because of some on-site engine repairs carried out early in their campaign. They took the record using only 13,000lbs thrust, less that half of what they'd planned.

As an aside, they used 5 tires, the only damage coming when Gabelich flat spotted one braking in the pits!! Goodyear reclaimed the tires and fitted the car with show tires which it rolls on to this day.

Robin

[bak189]

Question to Robin and/or Pork Pie.....the last time I saw the Blue Flame was in a museum in Germany
is it there?
Kent, regarding running our sidecars on CNG.........
no not todate.....asked back in the 1980's.............
Maybe SCTA/BNI is now more "enlightened"
(it's O.K. for BUB)

[PorkPie]

Question to Robin and/or Pork Pie.....the last time I saw the Blue Flame was in a museum in Germany
is it there?
Kent, regarding running our sidecars on CNG.........
no not todate.....asked back in the 1980's.............
Maybe SCTA/BNI is now more "enlightened"
(it's O.K. for BUB)

The Blue Flame is owned by the Technik Museum in Sinsheim - about 20 miles north west of Hockenheim - the race course. It was rent for some daysthis year to the World of Speed exhibition in Goodwood.

[1212FBGS]

bak
if ya build a really good guard to protect the head i really think they would be cool with it. fuel class of course. ya want me to build one for ya?
kent

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I've got a pair of CNG tanks still in my '89 Jimmy -- from when I could get CNG at the local station on which to run the vehicle.  3,600 psi was what the gauge showed when the tanks were full.  I don't know the composition of the tanks -- but the top layer is a wound-fabric of some sort.  Somebody want 'em?  They're available if you do, although you'll have to ask really nicely to have me go through the contortions to get 'em out of their mounts.

[Stainless1]

Yea, the same group declared hydrogen illegal for many years after Ben Jordan ran the Zagato on it in 1981.  He sponsored a trophy for the fastest hydrogen vehicle, won a couple of times by Middle Tennessee U if I remember right, then the Hindenburg scenario evolved in the smaller minds of SoCal... 
(sorry, did I write that down)
 

[JackD]

Their thoughts began and ended at the sight of a huge sack of burning Hydrogen hanging over a cocktail party.
The confusion about the color of the flame fails to include the other materials that were also burning at the same time.
Various colors of fireworks come to mind.

OBTW:
I always suspected Stainless was a Charm School Dropout. LOL