Question for the 'Top Guns' on 2 wheels.

[John Beckett]

Nardo is?
 
 JB

[Seldom Seen Slim]

"Odran" spelled backwards.

[k.h.]

Nardo Bowl is a favorite motorsport test track in Italy.  See FIM linked records on this site.  Lotta endurance stuff.  Ford tested the new GT there up to 200 mph.

[rosemeyer]

Nardo is in Southern Italy. It's a test track built by FIAT in the 60s. It's an absolute circular track, 10 km in length, with 13 degree constant banking, but I am told that it isn't absolutely flat. There are portions of it which go slightly up and down. It has been used for long distance records by cars and motorcycles. It can be driven at 250 +mph, no problem. It's to long distance records what Bonneville is for short distance records: ideal!

[PorkPie]

Malcolm,
 
 you be right, the FIM call the SoA and the SMI "cyclecars" - the defnition means - motorcycles with sidecars had to be called "cyclecars" when there are two wheels not in line so as a normal motorcycle - I think only to Rolf Biland "Sidecar" which he used in the FIM world cahmpionship in the 80's.
 
 SMI certification. This is an American timekeeper certification which is signed also by a FIM official - so it's typed under his signature.
 
 Craig Breedlove 407 mph record with the SoA will stand for ever so in the record book, also due to this that the FIA certified his later two records he set with the Three Wheeler. Why FIA changed there mind, we (Ugo Fadini, Stan Goldstein and myself) never found it out.
 
 By the way, Rocketman Brown was not the first one who got the rights to run under FIM with thrust power - Art Arfons and his Green Monster No. 27 was in the original configuration a jet engine (from a F5) powered streamlined motorcycle. When I was at his place in the 90's he told me that he got originially the idea to run FIM and that the FIM gave him the okay that they would take care for him when he would be ready to go. It never happened after he done his famous lift off - after this jump he reworked the Green Monster to a four wheeler.
 
 Max Biaggi is on the list but hard to find.
 
 Nardo was used in the last 30 years for long distance records and long distance/high speed test of the car companies. The Mercedes C111
 diesel records was set there, the last big and successful record attempt was done by VW with a W12 sportscar - they set hours and long distance record. Due to a repair stop the 12 hours record was slower than the 24 hours - VW done some weeks later another attempt to "correct" this successful.
 Some weeks ago a streetlegal Porsche (from a tuner) set a speed of 241 mph.
 Nardo is in the deep south of Italy, very similar as the Laredo test track in Texas, the only different is, that Nardo is a high bend and Laredo is flat.
 
 See ya

[JackD]

Pork Pie
 Your facts don't translate very well.
 1.The definition of the various differences between cars and bikes was established when the FIA and FIM were formed.
 A three wheeled vehicle is a variation of a motorcycle. A cycle car has the additonal requirement that accomodate a passenger. A sidecar is another definition and does not represent any sidecar that is in common use.
 2. If the Craig Breedlove three wheeled thrust record was retired that was a mistake. The FIA never processed any record for a three wheeled vehicle.
 3. Art Arfons never applied for recognition by any sanction. The 1 run he made as a two wheeled thrust vehicle was after a USFRA meet. He crashed when it lifted under way and it landed on it's tail. There was no crash protection in the front around the driver.
 Remember the FIA and FIM official may refuse to time a vehicle without the required safety minimums.
 Long distance records are really period records and measure the distance traveled over a precise measured course and the distance traceled in a prescribed amount of time.
 Larado is not flat and features various degrees if banking. The record line is on the banking.
 
  <small>[ February 16, 2005, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: JackD ]</small>

[Malcolm UK]

Thanks JackD for ensuring my understanding that Art Arfons did not get sanction for his two wheeler, even though he knew which International body to work with.
 
 Having spent nearly a year of my life just getting a thrust class accepted into the ACU and FIM books (project duration was '93 to '99), it would have been upsetting to know that this had been wasted time.
 
 Art used a small (in size) jet and discovered some problems!  This is why Richard (with a little prompting from myself) finally chose to go with rocket power alone.  Team Maximum Impulse used a very strict cross wind limit to abort any run at Bonneville - something all streamliner teams might want to adopt even when running SCTA/USFRA regular meetings.  
 
 Many projects (USA & UK) have looked at thrust powered two wheelers for land speed record breaking, but apart from Art only Richard Brown ever got a vehicle completed to my knowledge.  There were a few mock ups perhaps.  
 
 Writer David Tremayne used what he called a "native american saying" in one of his books on the 'paper projects' that appear time and time again in the world of LSR ..... "Talk is cheap white man, takes money to buy whisky".  Very few spend there own money and achieve any success in getting a vehicle built.
 
 I could never understand how the FIA could ratify the two SoA records Craig set after the 407 mph three wheel record, when he used the same vehicle!

[Glen]

Malcolm
 SCTA and USFRA have wind restrictions of 15 mph for cross winds. We put the meet on hold when it reachs that velocity. We also notify the starting line that the wind conditions are approaching the max. We reccomend that no high speed vehicles run with the cross wind is above 6 mph.
 Glen

[PorkPie]

JackD,
 
 sorry but I have to correct some of your comments.
 1. what's than a trike - different places - different English - wing/fender/mudgard - all means the same - all is English - only on different places.
 
 2. Craig Breedlove's 407 mph record from 1963 with the Three Wheeler is on the "frozen" list of the FIM - so you can call it retired if you like - but you will have no chance to break it anymore, due to this that this "class" exist not on the today categorie list, anymore.
 The "FIA" certified the 468.72 mph and 526.28 mph record - Craig Breedlove and Stan Goldstein, both got the certifications - I'm sure you know who Stan Goldstein is.
 
 3. Some picture of the runs shows Art Arfons Green Monster No. 27 during a meet - as I remember it was the World of Speed - I talked also to Rick Vesco about this attempts. The reason why he crashed was, that one of the outriggers (legs left right) which hold the bike upright by low speed didn't went in. When the outrigger contact the salt the bike airborned
 Why I know that he request the FIM and he got an answer - he showed me the letters when I asked him if he was interest to go official FIM.
 
 Laredo - Nardo - if you see both courses you will see what I meant with "FLAT" for Laredo.
 
 I apologize my bad Australian/English/German English - fair dinkum...

[PorkPie]

Malcolm
 
 - why the "FIA" certify the record two and three of the Three Wheeler - nobody can explain this - I discussed this wiht Ferdinand "Fred" Kaesmann -he has also no idea.
 But why did the certify Tom Green's Wingfoot Express record and Art Arfons Green Monster - the first two official "FIA" class C unlimited records.
 Fred and I thought - may be the reason why they accept the Three Wheeler record, was, that the "FIA" was not interest that a "motorcycle" under FIM regulation was the fastest vehicle on earth. Call it jelousy....
 
 See ya
 
 Pork Pie

[Malcolm UK]

Glen
 
 I was not aware of the 6 mph advisory - very useful for motorcycle streamliners!
 
 Should have added the 'Bub meet', as that was where one of the newer streamlined bikes took a risk that did not pay off and they seemed not to have had any information to work with down track (this is from reports, I did not get there).
 
 I am not sure that for Art's crash in GM27 that the outrigger alone caused it.  Whatever the reason, he soon made it into a 'car'.
 
 Only Richard Brown so far has run a thrust powered two wheeler under any form of official sanction ......... and with just seven timed runs on the salt got to 333 mph average through the kilo one way.  [OK JackD 332.877 mph, but with Gillette with Mach3 (everything in threes) as a sponsor we round up!]

[JackD]

Malcolm made a funny.
 Some peopie are rounder than others and I guess the defination of flat has some several meanings.
 Retiring the 3 wheeld thrust record is still a mistake unless the procedure has changed.
 The only change that occured after the Budwieser attempt was a record that measured top speed above a defined speed and the measurement was not the average over a kilo or a mile. This was approved by the FIM and FIA never was applied. If it works for FIA, then getting it approved with FIA should be no problem, but not after the attempt.