The Crusade is over!!!!!!!

[bak189]

After 20 years of trying to get passengers back into our Land Speed Racing Sidecars with SCTA/BNI.........it is over......I know this will be good news to some.......
and an admission of failure to others.  I have, however, been partly successful, our straightline racers can now race their sidecars at the BUB Trials with a passenger.....we are also allowed to use passengers at most of the dragstrips.  I will continue to race
our solo-bikes and sidecar at the BUB Trials  and our solo-bikes at BNI.  At the age of 70+ years old, I plan to sit back and watch the grass grow and spend more time in Europe to watch sidecar racing with passengers..........but not before I write a check to Jon at Landracing.com to help keep this forum alive.  I have given it my best effort........but it has at times been like shoveling s@#$! against the tide.  Many thanks to the people that have supported my efforts

[Sumner]

Now I wouldn't give up that easy  ,  who knows you might have just about convinced them  . 

Enjoy the racing in Europe and relax and then come back and give them hell  .  See ya at BUB and it sounds like maybe Speed Week

Sum

[Larry C]

Well Nuts!!, there go all of those interesting conversations over adult beverage's. The good news is that as long as Bak189 continues to buildum I will continue to raceum. Come to think of it I bet we find some intersting topics of discussion anyway.

[Carl Johansson]

well crud Bob,
I was just fixing to join up -  I think having a passenger in the sidecar is the essence of the sport - without that we are driving motorized shopping carts!

Yah I know I'm building a stick and wheel rig -  but if it's sucessfull I think it would bew a gas to rig the bike with a real side car and put one of my brothers in there and go for it!

thanks for your 20 years of effort -  it was not in vane -  someday -  hopefully soon!

Carl Johansson

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  Sidecars should have a monkey. Makes in interesting. People would be waiting in line to ride in the sidecar down the salt until someone crashes

Might even be able to offset some of the expenses by charging for a ride.  Who knows, might even be able to open up other classes for a passenger: I can see it now, double up on a motorcycle, a passenger in a lakester, even a two-seater streamliner WOW, what a rules nightmare!  Could even play !%## with the insurance.

[1212FBGS]

Bob... come on Bob... dont be a quitter!  Why dont ya hit em with this new angle..... This year I know of at least 6 new side cars going to be raced! Why? Because they will all run on open records! How many of them would enter if they "HAD" to have a passinger?If they "HAD" to find someone to hang on! Ok I would ride on the side of Derriks 90mph sidecar, but you wouldn't get my stupid ass on the side of the Noonan Mooreland 250mph blown Busa hack, or Craigs 250mph+ liner. It would slow the entries up if they made it manditory.
Kent

[JackD]

If the sidecar remained with it's basis in reality and the abuse of the little old lady did not occur they might still be really with us and not part of a buy a record and points  scheme that is so  transparent.

[interested bystander]

My two bits worth on  new sidecar builders at this time is, not to malign the SERIOUS who REALLY want to set a sidecar record for the sake of it being a GENUINE sidecar, that MOST are cherry pickers looking for an easy record and points OR can't balance their bike at speed.

On this subject, I was critical of the Budfabb guys when they put a training wheel on initially, but it was, no doubt, part of their TRAINING program, 'cause without them, BOTH individuals  jumped in and made great runs in a vehicle configuration that might be the HARDEST in the world to control. Looking forward to more success from that machine!

Jack, I'm not sure what abusing old ladies means, but at my age, abusing old ladies might just be in the eyes of the beholder.

[JackD]

As time marches on, more of the ladies get younger and younger I have noticed and the really young one act older and older.
The Little Old Lady deal was an ancient that was put into a street designed hack with all the safety requirements of an enclosed vehicle but never could have survived the trauma of an upset because of her advanced age and frail condition.
That lapse of judgement caused the SCTA to prohibit all hack passengers from that point forward.
They sorta shot their wad with that one.
Instead of addressing the real problem they chose to take another direction and off they went.

OBTW: I was just asked to comment on the MC with the stick and wheel.
That separate classification definition in SCTA and the associated minimums came under the radar of the board and the minimums were also set by the same person.
The salt in the wound got worse when the same person tried to get even those minimums reduced but the board finally looked at it and was not that dumb.
That was for points at El Mirage and a lifetime membership in SCTA for the number 1.
Can you guess the outcome of the first year of competition that set the pattern for other abuse ?
I'll bet you can and the beat goes on.

[bak189]

It should be noted that the so called "lapse of judgement" was on the part of SCTA/BNI Tech. inspectors......... that sidecar outfit should never have been allowed to run down the course...........they did allow it........it set a record that was cert. and still stands.........then they
outlawed passengers......after the fact........no discussion, no input from other sidecar teams....Hey, 
nothing has changed regarding
M/C rules making..........right

[JackD]

That is not correct.
The rig met all the SCTA requirements for safety as dictated by the rules that applied for both enclosed and open motorcycles.
The lapse in judgement that was going beyond the bounds of good sense was the passenger , that while she could exit the vehicle under normal circumstances at inspection could not have survived a crash.
And that was the end of that.
The rules that followed , prohibited the practice and were the basis for the Insurance that based the rate accordingly.
Who can forget the small lady passenger that was asked to demonstrate the use of the required restraints for the enclosed passenger?
When asked to extend her legs out of the protective measures she stuck them straight up into the air easily. with that she was reminded that she would be that much shorter if she survived a crash.
The quick release belt across just above the knees to prevent that was provided by a biker that really wanted to see them do well.

E

[Nortonist 592]

I, for one, am not in favor of passengers.   Apart from the fact that they are a loose object I just don't see the need for them.  SCTA records aren't recognized by the FIM (unless, of course, prior arrangements have been made).  The wheel on a stick description is also unfair.  The SCTA has dimensions for a platform and looking at the current world championship road racing sidecars it would almost appear that the SCTA dimensions are bigger.  That the sidecar class has been used as "soft record class" for the number 1 spot is undeniable.  But what is also on the horizon is the fact that all the soft records have been bumped up and the "problem" may go away by itself.  Why do we need to carry a passenger?  Some of the car classes have to have room for the number of passengers the car was designed to carry but they don't carry passengers.  Are streamliners any less a car beause they only have room for one person?  Would anybody describe the Costello Yacoucci 'liner as a modified sedan?  So why should sidecars have to carry or really even have to have provisions for a passenger?  This is a specialised sport and to be tied to the real world isn't really necessary.

[JackD]

The group that saw the last of the allowed passengers in a sidecar did begin to make application to the FIM but upon receipt of the rules they abandoned that effort.
SCTA does not owe its heritage to any other motor sport and controls it's own destiny, like it or not.

[bak189]

Like I posted before the "Crusade is over".............................................
Good luck in 2007 to all Land Speed Racers..................................

[tomsmith]

Instead of a real live person as sidecar passenger, why not just require an inflatable mannekin?  Lots of the guys probably have one already.  You could add about 130 to 150 pounds of ballast for a proper simulation.  This should be adequately realistic.