Roll cage design

[Glen]

the number is taken

[JackD]

WWJD (i like that) LOL
"If you want to skip steps, learning to fly might be good advice also that should be taken to heart."
Getting with an experienced Corvette person might be a good next step. or you will have to learn to land the hard way.

[Speed Limit 1000]

Numbers such as 999, 666, 111 have always been reserved for streamliners. I would hope they haven't changed that. Vetts are nice but anyone can get one.

[John Nimphius]

Even when obtaining a number the correct way, being concerned what it might look like after you roll over doesn?t seem to be the right way to start this process.

[doug odom]

Even when obtaining a number the correct way, being concerned what it might look like after you roll over doesn?t seem to be the right way to start this process.

   Having been upside down myself, I can tell you for sure that the last thing I was worried about was how the numbers looked.  LOL    Doug Odom

[Carl Johansson]

Even when obtaining a number the correct way, being concerned what it might look like after you roll over doesn?t seem to be the right way to start this process.

Hey JackD and Glen, and spoeed limit 1000 - and a few other of you!
Holy cow man -  it's a joke!  I'm just messing around -  some of you guys are getting a little to "crotchety old man" on the rest of us!  Your starting to act like old men golfers who spend all their time talking about "proper respect for the game"  and it's not fun for them -  they have forgotten why they used to like to play golf!

when did land speed racing stop being fun for some of you?

To alleviate some concerns over my roll cage.  I went to Dave Cooper (started RD Racing) who designed the cage recognized by most as the best for C-4 corvettes.  The cage was designed in co-operation with one of the head engineers for Corvette racing.  Dave has bent up and installed in excess of 200 of these units -  no failures so far -  over the past 20 years.

trouble is Dave Retired and moved to Phoenix!  So I tracked him down and asked him to look at the available options for me!  3 weeks later his report alarmed me -  most of the units available on the internet were improperly designed -  primarily in terms of mounting points -  as it relates to crush zones and the unique C-4 frame!

So to make along story short I have coaxed Dave  out of retirement for 1 weekend -  he will be flying in the end of this month and we will bend up and mount the cage -  I have a hydraulic powered Mandel Bender, 6 different welding units stick heliarc mig tig gas 110 220 -  a whole bunch of options.  I also have a 2 post lift and a complete machine shop!

I am well aware that I am looking at the one item that may save my life when it all goes wrong - thats why I have spent so much time and energy on this -  why I have talked to a dozen different people -  guys with experience building NASCARS,  bonneville cars, accident investigators -  physics geeks, metalurgists -  anyone I could find -  and I'm not done yet -  I'll be down at Pomona this weekend looking and picking brains - and over to the coast to visit with one of the most experienced guys on the planet next week.

yup -  I made jokes about numbers -  Nope I'm not one of the Good old boys - sorry for that -  I'm just a guy learning and having fun as I work my way through the process -    when it stops being fun -  well I'll move on.

BTW -  I do fly planes -  and have survived a crash -  I take life very seriously -  I also have fun and enjoy every minute I have here on earth -  lighten up -  enjoy life laugh and have a little fun guys -  it ain't supposed to be work -  it's supposed to be fun!

Carl "honest guys I'll pick an appropriate number -  you can approve it so it's not offensive to any of you!" Johansson

[Speed Limit 1000]

Getting in the 2 club is the most fun I have ever had, with my clothes on!

[JackD]

As the first name mentioned, let me be the first to say
"Holy Cow Man, it was no joke."
My answer was straight up.
You ask a legitimate question, I'll give what I know to be a legitimate answer.
Take the advice or not.
Play me and you will lose.
My sense of humor is very tolerant but certain other things are very rigid.

[Glen]

I agree with Jack, and maybe we are a crotchety old bunch at times but we earned it the hard way. Many of us have been racing at the lakes and Bonneville since the early 50s. We have seen it all and rules and safety features were written because someone paid their dues the hard way. Starting out with an attitude will get you nowhere. Asking questions and getting answers and then saying the Corvette engineers will tell you the best way is fine. The rules still have to be followed and I suggested you contact the coupe committee to assure you were going the right direction. Stepping on toes and later saying you were jokeing doesn't work.

Anyone one on this forum will work with you and in some cases even come to your shop if they are in the area. Just use the proper approach and you will get the information you need.

[Carl Johansson]

I agree with Jack, and maybe we are a crotchety old bunch at times but we earned it the hard way. Many of us have been racing at the lakes and Bonneville since the early 50s. We have seen it all and rules and safety features were written because someone paid their dues the hard way. Starting out with an attitude will get you nowhere. Asking questions and getting answers and then saying the Corvette engineers will tell you the best way is fine. The rules still have to be followed and I suggested you contact the coupe committee to assure you were going the right direction. Stepping on toes and later saying you were jokeing doesn't work.

Anyone one on this forum will work with you and in some cases even come to your shop if they are in the area. Just use the proper approach and you will get the information you need.

One more time -  I was joking about getting a number based on what it would look like rolled over -  It was nothing more that a joke! 

I completely respect the experience and information from the old time guys here on the forum.  I completely respect the rules and why they are in place.  Unlike many others here I don't question rules -  I simply ask the best way to comply!

I have already sent out e-mails to the competition committee -  I am awaiting answers -  but I didn't think asking the "how do you build a roll cage" was the right approach.  In my mind the best approach was - " I would like to build my roll cage in this specific manner -  it seems to fit inside the rules -  does it meet your approval?"

So thats what I did -  I sought advise here,  got alot of help from Doug Odom,  he's been doing this a while hasn't he?  Instead of sitting here watching me struggle -  he contacted me and offered his experience and expertise -  I really appreciated that-  his help over the phone has been invaluable -  and his invitation to visit his shop is welcomed!I'm going over to his shop next week to take a look.
 I sought out guys with lots of experience from all over the country.  i listed some of that in the last e-mail.  In effect the design of cage I have proposed to the committee is well tested and accepted in many different racing venues (including land speed racing as far as I can tell).  i did not follow Jacks advise to go to Autopower -  there were 2 very good reasons for me chosing to not go that route! doing that - it appears as if that set Jack off!  Although I can't be to sure - I'm too stupid to understand the logic, reasoning and point in many of his posts!

looking back at the history of the posts I see you offered Jegs as an option -  I responded to that suggestion explaining why I didn't want to take that option -  did that set you off? 

I've gotten lots of advise. I do my best to objectively look at it and choose what I think is the best option for me and my safety.  The danger of that approach -  at least here in the forum seems to be, if you don't accept someones advise -  you are a punk and an infidel!

Oh and just to make a final point -  look back through my original post -  did any one -  and I mean anyone actually answer my question!   I asked a simple design question -  Doug Odom answered it -  and went the extra mile to help out.  The rest of you ignored my question and launched off into your own agendas!

I thank Doug  immensely  -  i appreciate the input from all of you -  but why deride me if I choose not to use your suggestions?  after all -  your suggestions were not answers to my question!

Carl -  "Guess I better go put on my fire suit now!" Johansson

[JackD]

My direct answer was to direct you to the person around here with the most experience.
He has on line pictures and will help you on the phone with anything you want.
He can sell to you or not but the design advice will be the same and exceed the rules.
He does it every day.
 

[836dstr]

Carl,

Don't take it too personally! Sometimes these threads get way off track when you are asking a specific question.

In the recent past I have asked some specific questions and got a wide variety of responses, including punctuation issues. I have also received some excelent advice (thanks Jack,JD,Stan,"Hotrod", etc.).

Listen to all and sort out what works for you!

Tom

P.S. It would be nice if we could keep the personal stuff out of this and try to clarify instead of crucify.

[836dstr]

Carl,

Another thought on Roll Cage design:

Check out the topic "What Class?" below on this forum, reply # 39 on page 3. Some observations on ergonomics. It could have a subtitle of "keeping the driver HAPPY" or comfortable.

Mostly common sense but worth repeating. Jack would put it more philosophically, but learn from others.

OOPS, one too many commas.

Tom

[John Nimphius]

My experience here is limited, but I have observed being thin skinned and responding confrontationally is likely to generate a response or two you may not care for.

The rules, if you are an experienced expert, seem to be:
Be confident without being confrontational.
Be assertive without being argumentative.
Lacking either expertise or experience why not ask questions and then just listen and learn.  I find the advice is always available and not too expensive.

[interested bystander]

Here's a life lesson for ANYBODY new getting into motorsport PAY ATTENTION TO THE EXPERIENCED OLD TIMERS i.e. Jack D. and many others.

When it comes to Land Speed racing ( and other stuff, too!) He's (maybe, 'cause we never know ahat may come up next.) made ALL the mistakes. I'm pretty sure he's hoping you'll avoid some of them with his advice, so PAY ATTENTION  to what he posts.

And if you can't afford an Autopower roll cage-YOU CAN'T AFFORD to do this! 

Again, I'm off my soap-box.