Author Topic: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers  (Read 15301 times)

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Offline Malcolm UK

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FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« on: January 23, 2005, 10:01:00 AM »
Throughout the latest published commentary by Louise, in which we get to read that SCTA/BNI will 'replace' the FIA and how bad the FIA and SCCA people have treated US racers at Bonneville, not once does she refer to the National Sporting Authority that reports to the FIA - ACCUS (Automobile Competition Committe for the United States) and its President Burdette Martin.
 
 The regulation of FIA matters in the United States is in the hands of Americans - not the "common two-bit criminals" across the Atlantic.  Why has this respected journalist not 'attacked' the US citizens responsible who run ACCUS?
 
 The commentary omits to point out that the FIA are guardians of procedures and classifications and ratifications (by committee) for all member countries across the World.  I have to agree that they cannot formulate the speed list on the website very well, but there will be paperwork in ACCUS for US attempts if they were officially made.  As to a Stewards knowledge, they do not have to know too much of the detail of 'diesels' or displacement measurement.  ACCUS/FIA technical people do that
 
 What concerns me is that from historical beginnings SCTA/BNI are a two event one track organisation for their highest speed attempts.  And that one track may no longer be the longest or safest in the World. [Yes I do know they run El Mirage events too].  The SCTA have shown no interest in supporting bids at other venues in their own country or any venue elsewhere in the world.  What if a driver makes his bid in South Afrika or Australia or Tunisia - will the SCTA/BNI recognise a World Record achieved?
 
 SCTA/BNI are a superb National organisation and if you run at Bonneville the record(s) achieved will be accurate and respected for what they normally are - Bonneville National Class Records - but as to taking over from the FIA, for those outside the Country, I doubt they want to be accepted or will be accepted.  And then we will have as many Land Speed World Record governing bodies as there are Boxing governing bodies!  And probably no one would want that.
Malcolm UK, Derby, England.

Offline JackD

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2005, 10:49:00 AM »
I think he got it right.
 Club racing is what it is and the multiple classes
 are what they are.
 To say they represent a "WORLD RECORD" is confusion at best because competition is restricted to their world.
 A "WORLD RECORD" is what you make of it after the world can race against your number.
 The number of people doing it really is small and it doesn't play well in a clup event.
 The world records are immature for sure and could stand some real competion.
 I would suggest before they declaire themselves the authority, they use their credibility and number of events to bring FIA up to the speed they believe is required.
 I will bet they have never applied to ACCUS for anything.
 As screwed up as the United Nations is I don't see the Boy Scouts ruling the world anytime soon.
 I have said this before and remain convinced.
 ENJOY
 
  <small>[ January 23, 2005, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: JackD ]</small>
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
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landracing

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
For those who want to follow or have not scene the two opinion articles here are two direct links to them
 
 World Land Speed Racers to get Some Respect
 
 What's An FIA World Land Speed Record Worth?
 
 Jonathan

landracing

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2005, 12:27:00 PM »
These are two very stongly worded articles. I agree with some of the points. BUT However what is an FIA world land speed record worth, for some obviously their life... The record keeping could have been some sub standard in with the record list, however a World Land Speed FIA or FIM record does carry alot of merit.
 
 Malcolm you bring up a very good point, and here is another IF the SCTA BNI would take over as World Land Speed records they again would have to allow Thrust Driven vehicles which are currently banned at their meets. IF a take over would take place, and that is a BIG If, they would have to agree with every rule in the FIA list. This is where the BNI International records come in to play. And the scta/bni tried to do more then that in the past with a group named LSA Authority. I have all the meeting minutes from all of their meeting in their ever short lived stint.
 
 Like everything else FIA is good, they just need to clean up thats all.
 
 Jonathan

John Beckett

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2005, 12:27:00 PM »
Malcolm
 
 ACCUS may be the organization of record that is supposed to handle FIA matters in the US. Obviously they haven?t. To my knowledge ACCUS has had zero involvement in LSR attempts.
 
 So if ACCUS is an arm of FIA, and they aren?t doing what is required, who is then to blame?
 
 I still don?t see any value, within the realm of LSR, in an organization that is totally involve in F-1 and Rally cars (which I don?t have a problem with) and has little or no time for LSR.
 
 It is time for another organization that is motivated to take over the reigns and move us forward from the 19th century to the 21st.
 
 John

Offline k.h.

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2005, 01:30:00 PM »
What is, or was, the Land Speed Authority (LSA)?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline Malcolm UK

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2005, 01:32:00 PM »
John
 
 I cannot see how the records of Summers, Teague, Hoffman/ Markley, Costella/True and so on got to be FIA approved if ACCUS were not involved as the USA Sporting Authority within the FIA.  Perhaps someone can enlighten me.  This is important as I am organising an FIA attempt in the USA this year.  
 
 As regards 'doing things' I know ACCUSS would delegate them (stewarding, tech and timing) to their member organisations that inlude SCCA and USAC.
 
 I know so little of the LSA I do not know if it was trying to do the right thing.
 
 If as you say the FIA needs to be replaced by a 21st Century body with motivation, then the new body would need to be the FIA Records Commission with a new name and new people but would otherwise need to look exactly the same.  
 
 And do not forget we have to see the FIM bike record setters looked after too.  Bub & AMA are helping there with the FIM attending his meeting.
Malcolm UK, Derby, England.

Offline JackD

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2005, 02:09:00 PM »
It is not required that thrust records be hosted at any particular event. In fact thrust records may not be suited for the track conditinds on the salt and wheel types that are common now.
 The BLM also has something to say about the conditions that are experienced when running back to the highway and the ability to stop.
 It is a common misconception about the conditions surrounding a thrust attempt.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

LittleLiner

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
What got me interested in LSR in 2002 was the fact that most of the smaller displacement FIA class records in Category A, Groups I, II, III, IV, V and VI were (and still are) either unclaimed or very soft.  I was coming out of another form of racing that had left me with several good engines that fit Category A, Group II, Class 1.  (unblown 250cc).  I thought all I had to do was go faster than zero and I was in the record book.  I asked around about how this was done and got the feeling that most folks involved with LSR here in the states weren?t all that interested in going after a world (FIA) record.  It appears to me that it is a ?Chicken and Egg,? cause and effect thing.  SCTA isn?t that hot on the FIA because frankly it appears to be hassle to run the international record attempts (two ways, one hour turn around, etc) and in some ways messes up the flow of the SCTA/BNI events. (how many one way runs could they make instead of the time being used for international attempts?) I suspect that the FIA isn?t that dedicated to the process because with so little interest from Bonneville it?s probably little more than a nuisance to them.  I think it would be more productive to work with the FIA and fix the problems described in the articles.  The SCTA is a volunteer organization.  Any reasonable person appreciates all that the SCTA accomplishes and is willing to forgive the occasional difficulty as long as someone is trying (the Motorcycle tire issue is an example).  Is it fair or reasonable to expect a volunteer organization (even a good organization like SCTA) to assume the role as the world authority for official world records?  Example, what if Chevrolet showed up with a car (Cobalt) that doesn?t meet the SCTA definition of a production car and SCTA refuses to allow it to set a world record?  How many lawyers does SCTA have?

Offline JackD

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2005, 03:26:00 PM »
Club events don't have to meet world record standards.
 GM has set FIA World records on private time and come back to Speedweek for photos and got beat for the FIA record during Speedweek by an SCTA hot rod that was not a factory effort.
 Mark Dees was the atty representing the GM interests and did not get very far.
 Many FIA records have been set during Speedweek but if the club ghanges the conditions, what happens to the record ?
 "WORLD" does not have the same meaning for everyone as evidenced by the "WORLD SERIES OF BASEBALL AND WORLD FINALS OF DRAGRACING".
 When the most accepted listing of "WORLD RECORDS"
 Is in a promotional book started by an Engilsh beer company it leaves some a little dry.
 
  <small>[ January 23, 2005, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: JackD ]</small>
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline }{ead$hot Zod

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2005, 04:40:00 PM »
I'll hoist me a Guinness to that last one laddy   :)
 
  <small>[ January 23, 2005, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Head$hot Zod ]</small>
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Offline Larry C

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2005, 01:47:00 PM »
A little research on the internet shows the ACCUS office in Illinos.  An article on Motorsport.com dated Sept,04 speaks of a new director name of Nick Crow.  There is a list of affiliate organizations and the SCTA/BNI are not listed as members.  Based on the conversaton taking place on this page I wonder if the SCTA has been trying to deal with the FIA directly instead if the ACCUS.

Offline JackD

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2005, 08:00:00 PM »
Any communication related to LSR would have been forwarded to Burdette Martin who also happened to be the head of ACCUS.
 All of the member organizations of ACCUS can be licenced to certify records for FIA.
 For example the jet was done by USAC and the drag bunch usually fall under NHRA and they decide what event to file the rusults for.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline D-Type

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2005, 08:36:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JackD:
  ~
 "WORLD" does not have the same meaning for everyone as evidenced by the "WORLD SERIES OF BASEBALL AND WORLD FINALS OF DRAGRACING".
 When the most accepted listing of "WORLD RECORDS"
 Is in a promotional book started by an Engilsh beer company it leaves some a little dry.
I assume this refers to the "Guinness Book of Records".  May I respectfully point out that Guinness is Irish not English.
 This does not in any way change the argument being promulgated.
Oh Lord, please help me to keep my big mouth shut until I know what I am talking about

Offline JackD

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Re: FIA & Louise Ann Noeth Comment Papers
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2005, 09:10:00 PM »
I am Irish and I don't drink beer. The English all look the same to Me. LOL
 What is a "PROMULGATED"? That word has not made it to So Cal yet. It must be an English deal like a bonnet.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"