Author Topic: weight and motorcycles!  (Read 4303 times)

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Offline Carl Johansson

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weight and motorcycles!
« on: January 21, 2007, 12:10:16 PM »
OK starting as a car guy I came to understand that weight wasn't really an issue -  in fact adding weight often makes you go faster. 
But now I've gotten extraordinarily stupid and have decided to run a motorcycle -  I see mention of adding ballast to bikes -  so is it the same -  or  does it differ by displacement?  big CC =  weight is your pal -  small CC -  you need to get light!?

I gotta know -  cause I've been sitting here all winter working on my "Moveable Ballast system"  and now all of a sudden I'm thinking -  I could easily overload my poor steed (350 cc).

So do I have to get out and start exercising -  or can I continue to sit around eating porkrinds dipped in butter and drinking beer smoothies!

Carl "gotta go stock up -  footballs on in a few hours" Johansson
Carl Johansson
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 12:28:28 PM »
Carl, ballast helps keep the drive wheel from spinning up when the horsepower required to push you through the air exceeds the horsepower you can put to the ground through the contact patch.  There you have it.

I'd say more, but your "...I've become extraordinarily stupid..." comment about bikes makes me decide you should have to work for the answer to your question.

Okay, enough hassling.  Nancy's bike makes about 45 hp -- and goes 120 or so.  No wheelspin problems, so no need for ballast.  It wouldn't have hurt -- we were at maximum speed in a mile or so (both at the Salt and at Maxton), and if we'd weighed more (thanks to ballast, for instance) we'd still have had room left to let the torque eventually pull us up to maximum speed. 

My bike makes 220 hp on motor, with the nitrous button in reserve.  I don't spin up the wheel on motor only - run a little over 200 -- but when I pushed the nitrous button at a buck-eighty the back tire would light up.  So then I added 40 pounds of ballast back there -- tire spin came under control, and I picked up about ten easy miles per hour -- but was still accelerating out the back door, so hitting the button earlier (with the ballast on board) would perhaps have yeilded even more ultimate speed.

So there's some anecdotal evidence about ballast and the need therefore.  Simple answer to your question:  Build a mount for the ballast and take some weight with you.  Make a couple of runs (with and without) and see what the heck happens.  Nothing like experiementation, is there?

So you're going to watch football today, hey?  Reruns, or is there a live game on?
Jon E. Wennerberg
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 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
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Offline Carl Johansson

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 12:51:03 PM »
Holy Crap Jon -  you answered my technical question -  but you missed the whole point -  I have a moveable ballast system. lets call it my fat ass! -  I can move 225 lbs forward and back -  and if I keep eating I will be able to move 240 lbs.

essentially I'm a fat ass right now -   happened as a result of 9 months of forced "do nothing physical "brought about by an achilles tendon that went pop!    when I finally got up and running again I promptly broke 2 ribs  (riding a motorcycle up and down desert canyons seems to be slightly different that running em on the salt! )-  and that laid me out for another month.   I just started to get active again -  course the sunny and 60 degrees today helps! I was just seeing if I need to get skinny like you!

NFL playoffs Jon -  you remember -  like the ones Green Bay used to be in!

carl "hauling ass means 2 trips for me!" Johansson
Carl Johansson
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 01:03:54 PM »
Okay, Carl, I'll play along like a good little boy.  On my bike there's room in the rider's seat to move fore-and-aft at least six inches, so I have the opportunity to move my moveable bal-assed (there, is that how you'd like me to spell it?) back and forth.  At Maxton this movement is pretty important -- I can move way up front when leaving to help control the tendency to wheelie -- and then there's plenty of room to strecth out into a better tuck as speed increases.  At the Salt the weight needs to stay back right off the line -- but it's still nice to be able to have room.  Nancy's arms are shorter -- we put a cushion behid her hiney when wshe's going to ride so she doesn't lose her grip on the clip-ons.

NFL  - -  let's see, the Nutritional Forensic Luncheon?  I haven't watched football (or any other tv) for so long that  -- that when I did, there were six teams in the N H L and about the same number of football teams.  I don't think any of the football players weighed more than 200# back then, either.


PS  If i've counted right, this should be the magic post #500 for me!  Let's see if I get another gold star (for turning in my homework or whatever it means).
Jon E. Wennerberg
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 Skandia, Michigan
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Offline narider

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 01:29:45 PM »
I've gotten extraordinarily stupid and have decided to run a motorcycle
Rather odd choice of words to start getting help from the mc's, but it's your choice!
Todd

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2007, 01:32:29 PM »
Todd, you're right, but I cut him a little slack when I noticed that statement -- he's willing to let me and Nancy drive his car at the Salt.

Jon E. Wennerberg
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 Skandia, Michigan
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Offline Carl Johansson

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2007, 01:38:37 PM »
I've gotten extraordinarily stupid and have decided to run a motorcycle
Rather odd choice of words to start getting help from the mc's, but it's your choice!
Todd

I'm not calling you MC guys stupid -  not at all -  with the possible exception of seldom slim -  he lives in the UP for heck sakes -  how smart can that be!

I was referencing my current lack of judgement!  Seems I have committed myself tohead up the running of 3 different cars and a motorcycle with at least 6 different drivers, on the Salt this year (1 of those cars is just now starting to be built -  and I haven't started on theMC yet! )!

carl "praying for rain" Johansson
Carl Johansson
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Offline JackD

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2007, 01:39:17 PM »
I've gotten extraordinarily stupid and have decided to run a motorcycle
Rather odd choice of words to start getting help from the mc's, but it's your choice!
Todd

He speaks only in reference to the rules.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline narider

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2007, 03:18:28 PM »
JW, between letting you drive his car and Jack's explanantion that it was a rule reference.. I fully understand Carl's statement now!
Carl, I'm certainly noone to speak of smarts... I run an inefficient yeared OE Harley motor(like there was ever an efficient one) in times of great technological advancements of motorcyling history, guess I took it personal and guess for good reason - lol. Within the first hour that I had met Scott Guthrie, he asked what I had brought to race and made the statement that "Harleys are for the street, and Metrics are for the racetrack" - I've never really forgotten that. Hell even my wife has moved on in that respect and got herself a japbike to improve herself on.
Back to your question,
I don't have the history(experience) or the speeds(for any given class) that most of these guys do under their belts, but here's my weight philosophy(or theory) if it means anything to you.
I call it the wiffle ball theory. If using the same person(consistant horspower) to throw 3 similiar aerodynamically shaped balls(cda) of different weights - IE: a wiffle ball(holes taped over), a softball and a duckpin ball... it's fairly reasonable to assume(or perform for proof) that the softball will not only travel the farthest, but also have a greater speed at the greatest distance of any of them. The wiffle ball will only triumph in the very shortest distance from the throwers arm as far as acceleration, and the duckpin ball will only triumph if there is an extremely excessive side wind and the balls must stay on a straight line. I'm not sure if this is coming across correctly(easier spoken then written I suppose?)), but it's my thought that there is a happy ratio of horsepower/frontal/aero to determine best weight of a vehicle(or thrower/size/shape to determine weight of a baseball if you will) that is best for any given situation(be it Maxton to Utah, or the pitching cages to the baseball diamond).
You having an adjustable amount and positioning on ballast is probably as good as it gets as long as the data of it's positioning in relation to the rest of the vehicle and it's results are logged for all the runs you ever do and a baseline is established in regards to the weight and it's positioning. Like fuel adjustments for air density changes... every change made elsewhere on the bike should constitute a change in ballast once dialed in correctly to be able to use the weight to it's utmost advantage.
So summarizing I'd say weight matters alot, and that the lightest amount of weight needed to obtain traction and overcome the current air-density in relation to your cda versus your attempted speed is the best amount of weight to have.
And my final answer is... that the less porkrind blizzards you concoct and consume, the longer you'll be around to find out and teach those of us that only think we know what we're talking about.
Todd(that used up 3 of my coffee breaks today)
PS: I've only ever ran on the concrete and not at the salt yet... but I have had both a fat wife and a skinny wife in the past... and currently have a perfectly proportionate size to weight wife(like I'm gonna say different?) that makes life better then I could of ever expected... so take my words for what they're worth.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 03:25:12 PM by narider »

Offline JackD

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 05:25:19 PM »
The best way to improve the performance of a HD is to pick the rider from the available girls that are in smaller sizes.
But that gets into religon and politics with another whole set of rule problems.
While the total weight is often less, the distribution is lower.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2007, 09:26:01 PM »
The best way to improve the performance of a HD is to pick the rider from the available girls that are in smaller sizes.
But that gets into religon and politics with another whole set of rule problems.
While the total weight is often less, the distribution is lower.

knife to Heart Ol'Masterson :cry:! Why ya gotta bring up the Female ADVANTAGE :-o! No matter what You Loose either Winning or Loosing against a GIRL

Offline JackD

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2007, 10:09:53 PM »
It has become popular to suggest that it requires big balls to ride like a winner.
That only tells me there is something wrong.
Girls are more equal than you think so be happy that most of them are content to "PLAY NICE."
Sorry if that left a bruise, just don't scratch it so anybody can see.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline narider

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2007, 10:26:21 PM »
The best way to improve the performance of a HD is to pick the rider from the available girls that are in smaller sizes.
But that gets into religon and politics with another whole set of rule problems.
While the total weight is often less, the distribution is lower.
I agree, 3 well stated sentences Jack
Todd

Super Kaz

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Re: weight and motorcycles!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2007, 08:21:36 PM »
It has become popular to suggest that it requires big balls to ride like a winner.
That only tells me there is something wrong.
Girls are more equal than you think so be happy that most of them are content to "PLAY NICE."
Sorry if that left a bruise, just don't scratch it so anybody can see.

Yes SIR! :wink: