Author Topic: side car class wheel size finals?  (Read 7549 times)

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Offline Carl Johansson

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side car class wheel size finals?
« on: January 12, 2007, 07:38:00 AM »
so if I am reading the final 2007 rule changes correctly

7.B.10  Wheels:

Wheels must have a minimum nominal diameter of 15 in. , except in the sidecar and streamliner classes. etc etc

This means all of you guys whining about this got what you wanted right?  you may run wheels of less than 15 inches on both the bike and the side car -  right?  So all of the whining and kvetching paid off?

Carl "don't know enough to have a legit bitch yet" Johansson
Carl Johansson
 Auberry Ca

Offline JackD

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 08:38:24 AM »
The 15 inch deal is only a concession to reality with respect to the real racing sidecars.
The real danger is the foolish allowance of the solid front wheel that has repeatedly proven to be so dangerous and caused every bike that has tried it to crash.
The exception is the English liner that found they couldn't even tow with it and abandoned the idea before they crashed.
It is lucky they were all liners and the operator protection prevented serious injuries.
There are many good solid reasons the solid wheel on a bike is a bad idea. :x
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

bak189

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 12:13:39 PM »
 I understand it, is that th 10' wheels and 5'
sidecar wheel as noted in the 2006 SCTA/BNI rule book is the same for the 2007 rule book...............am I right?

Offline Carl Johansson

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 02:04:27 PM »
I understand it, is that th 10' wheels and 5'
sidecar wheel as noted in the 2006 SCTA/BNI rule book is the same for the 2007 rule book...............am I right?

Where in the hell are you finding 10 foot wheels for your motorcycle? 

To answer the question -  I don't know!  I just stole the rule change from the main page and posted the pertinent portion of the "final rule changes for 07!

carl "wish I had a 10 foot wheel! Johansson
Carl Johansson
 Auberry Ca

bak189

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 03:34:52 PM »
10 foot front and rear wheels....solved our gearing problem!!!!!!..........................................

Offline Carl Johansson

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 03:55:28 PM »
Yahoo -  great gyroscopic stability  -  right?


OK so are you gunna help me with an idea for layout for the dreader wheel and stick Sidecar?    Or must I dream it up on my own?

(I know you hate em with a passion - and I agree with you -  but right now -  for me -  a great way to get started !)

Carl
Carl Johansson
 Auberry Ca

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 04:27:47 PM »
All our "whining and kvetching" resulted in commonsense prevailing.  A rule change for no reason other than a whim is wrong.  A rule change with no reason offered is wrong.  I, for one, did a lot of "whining and kvetching" for the simple reason that I'm building a sidecar with a 10" front wheel.  The entire front end is designed and built around the 10" wheel.  To change would be difficult.  To put it another way.  How much "whining and kveteching would there be if the roadster committee announced in January that all roadsters running at El Mirage in May had to have independent rear suspension?  Such profound rule changes should have at least a years notice.  Safety changes, yes but changes that have undertones have to be challenged.  P.S. We dream and build.  Store bought racers are not part of our dreams.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 04:29:28 PM by Nortonist 592 »
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline Carl Johansson

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 06:02:50 PM »
All our "whining and kvetching" resulted in commonsense prevailing.  A rule change for no reason other than a whim is wrong.  A rule change with no reason offered is wrong.  I, for one, did a lot of "whining and kvetching" for the simple reason that I'm building a sidecar with a 10" front wheel.  The entire front end is designed and built around the 10" wheel.  To change would be difficult.  To put it another way.  How much "whining and kveteching would there be if the roadster committee announced in January that all roadsters running at El Mirage in May had to have independent rear suspension?  Such profound rule changes should have at least a years notice.  Safety changes, yes but changes that have undertones have to be challenged.  P.S. We dream and build.  Store bought racers are not part of our dreams.

Hey - I'm on your side on this -  I just have a twisted sense of humor!  i was applauding the "whiners and Kvetchers " who made a difference on this issue! 

I am however -  as we speak, :evil: combing through the rules looking for a way to specifically exclude you and your lightning fast sidecar from ever gracing the salts of the hallowed Bonneville! :-D
Carl Johansson
 Auberry Ca

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 06:21:25 PM »
Oh, Should my sidecar be lightning fast.  If you comb through my wallet you will find (or not find) lots of reason why I might not grace the hallowed salt of Bonneville.  Would it help if I said my 10" front wheel is a CAR wheel?
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline JackD

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 07:12:38 PM »
Just a lesson and not a whine:
The rule says "No solid front wheels except for sidecars and streamliners" when it should say "Cross vented wheels are not required on sidecars and streamliners."
What he meant to say and what he did say are quite different.
To write the rules , you must be able to read them also.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2007, 11:57:22 PM by JackD »
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 09:12:47 PM »
Quote
The real danger is the foolish allowance of the solid front wheel that has repeatedly proven to be so dangerous and caused every bike that has tried it to crash.
Solid front wheels cause a problem because side winds react strongly on them.
Quote
Solid front wheels are not allowed except in the sidecar and streamliner classes if the wheel is fully enclosed by the body work.
This should make it a non-problem.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline JackD

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2007, 02:23:55 AM »
Solid front wheels are quite different from wheels that are not cross vented.
The cross wind reaction is quite a problem with a non vented front wheel and conventional tire application.
A solid wheel is one with no tire and the lack of lateral grip has caused all of them to crash.
Reading , writing, and understanding are too far apart.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2007, 12:10:43 PM »
Interesting how you can read the same words and get different meanings.

I agree that wheels with cross ventilation without tires could be called solid wheels.

I also agree that wheels without cross ventilation with tires could be called solid wheels.

Quote
7.B.8 All motorcycle entries, including streamliners and sidescars, must use tires with an appropriate speed rating.
Sorta says you have to use tires, but not quite.
Quote
7.B.10  Wheels:
Wheels must have a minimum nominal diameter of 15 in. , except in the sidecar and streamliner classes. It is highly recommended that strict attention be paid to wheel alignment, wheel balance, spoke tension and tire run-out. Solid front wheels are not allowed except in the sidecar and streamliner classes if the wheel is fully enclosed by the body work. It is REQUIRED that front wheels be cross ventilated by an area equal to at least 25% of nominal rim circle area. Solid rear wheels are allowed. No wheel discs are permitted.

So yes, non-tire wheels are not specifically banned. Because of the wording about fully enclosed I would take that to mean non-cross ventilated, not without tire.

And yes, I do have the same complaint you do, the guys that write the rules tend to amend what is there instead of rewriting the rule to say what they mean.

Rewriting still works. Proposal:
7.B.10
Sentence three: Solid non-cross ventilated front wheels are not allowed.
Sentence five: Solid non-cross ventilated rear wheels are allowed.
New sentence: All wheels must have tires. Refer to 7.B.8

Quote
7.B.8 Any tire deviation must be submitted to the Contest Board, with sufficient supporting data to justify a deviation, in writing 45 days prior to the meet.
This allows you to run a solid non tire wheel, rubber band or any thing else you think will work for the outside-the-box types.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline JackD

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2007, 01:14:23 PM »
Remove the word "solid" and just say "cross vented" and you have a better result with fewer words to confuse.
Proper tire requirements will eliminate "solid wheels" that are an accident that has already happened every time and it just waiting for another victim.
Safety based on experience and clarity with the same basis is an equal burden for everybody in the sport.
Proper evolution of the rules will cause a better understanding on both sides that have a lot to learn from each other.
Favoritism (spelled the way I want it) has no place in this or any other sport.
Do everything behind closed doors and it is best if you stay there.

PLEASE
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Loose Goose-Terry#1

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Re: side car class wheel size finals?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2007, 10:39:44 PM »
 :? Nortonist 592, Would you please tell me where you came up with 10" wheels and tires with speed ratings? How fast, how much weight do you expect? Where can I get 5" (or 6") sidecar wheels speed and load rated (other than maybe Kart tires)? 8-)

Could sure use some help. :-D

Thanks,

Terry A. Hume
ctracing@earthlink.net
If I had it all to do over again...I would!