300+ MPH Bikes and Cars.....

[JackD]

Do it at the end of the day and you reduce all the problems and get to see it happen too.

[dwarner]

After seeing Mike Nish lose traction and bounce the streamliner at the FIA meet I don't think that late in the day is the best time of the day to run. I think his incident happened around 2PM.

DW

[desotoman]

At Speed Week I was talking to one of the streamliner guys and he said that with the long lines it was very hard for them to run as it took a lot of prep up near the start to run. 
[/quote]

I don't understand this statement? Does it take less time if the lines are short to prep the car at the starting line? 

Everyone pays the same to run at Bonneville and everyone should be treated equal. This is an amateur sport.(Contrary to what some believe) Just because someone has chosen to build a 300mph streamliner vs. someone who has chosen to build a 250mph Comp Coupe vs. someone who built a Vintage Oval Track car, they should not have any starting line advantages over anyone else period. They choose to run that class, and take on all the challenges that are involved with that class, and that Mother Nature throws at them.  It is just as important to the guy that owns the Vintage Oval Track car, to be able to run on a good course. His run is just as important to him as it is to the driver of a streamliner.

Tom G.

[Bob Drury]

Tom, the difference is that for the spectators and I would guess most other racers, watching the 300 mph cars run is a added bonus that makes it worthwhile to stop everything else to see.  Very few give a rats ass about a vintage sprint car or yours or my car making a pass.  After my usual yearly carnage, I enjoy watching the show, and that does not include Datsun pickups, et al.  I enjoy the sound of a Offy as much as anyone, but watching the fast boys is what its all about, and if I have to sit in line for four hours and fifteen minutes versus four hours to let one of them run, its okay by me.

[PorkPie]

At Speed Week I was talking to one of the streamliner guys and he said that with the long lines it was very hard for them to run as it took a lot of prep up near the start to run. 
[/quote]

I don't understand this statement? Does it take less time if the lines are short to prep the car at the starting line? 

Tom G.
[/quote]

If you have run a streamliner, may be you would understand this comment. What this guy likes to say, was:

To run a streamliner needs some prep process  - if you be in line you move the car forward, make this prep, move forward, next prep. Due to this that this streamliners is more like a closed rocket, panels has to be off for the prep, what means that the car and parts had to be moved all the time.

When a streamliner could stand on the side of the moving line of roadster, lakester and motorcycle all the job could be done without interruption from the moving, which would be a great advantage. Less stress means less possible mistakes which would be good for the safety, too.
I can understand this guy and I agree with this guy.

[Richard Thomason]

Being one that runs a 300+ mph car, I enjoy seeing this thread. A couple of things, yes it takes a lot more time to prep a car like this, but we are willing to wait in line like everyone else, no one is better than anyone else, don't think that this is the issue on this thread. One thing that is important about the really fast cars, the tires are losing pressure at a really fast rate. We spend a lot of time in the pits before each run making sure the pressures are right. If we spend 5 hours in line, it it always a concern that we are correct. It is really difficult to recheck the pressure (runout) if it is several hours later. We just hope and assume that it is still close. I guess the other question is that at this time, how many cars above 300 are we talking about? Is this going to seriously impact the meet? Obviously I have a bias, so take this with any grain of salt that you want.

[PorkPie]

Being one that runs a 300+ mph car, I enjoy seeing this thread. A couple of things, yes it takes a lot more time to prep a car like this, but we are willing to wait in line like everyone else, no one is better than anyone else, don't think that this is the issue on this thread. One thing that is important about the really fast cars, the tires are losing pressure at a really fast rate. We spend a lot of time in the pits before each run making sure the pressures are right. If we spend 5 hours in line, it it always a concern that we are correct. It is really difficult to recheck the pressure (runout) if it is several hours later. We just hope and assume that it is still close. I guess the other question is that at this time, how many cars above 300 are we talking about? Is this going to seriously impact the meet? Obviously I have a bias, so take this with any grain of salt that you want.

Therefore another point:

In the earlier time I saw some of the real fast streamliner teams that they prep the car on the side and than, when it was there turn to run they moved the car forward to the starting line.....why is this not anymore possible?

[desotoman]

What about if 300mph vehicles were allowed to put their (example) "push vehicle" in line (must be clearly identified with car number) while you were working on your car back in the pits. Then when the driver of the vehicle in line starts to get close to the starting line they radio the pit crew to come down to get in line. This way you would only have a 10 - 15 minute wait, and everything on the car would be ready to go.

When I get a chance I will see if that is OK to do according to the Bonneville proceedures.

Tom G.

[Dean Los Angeles]

These are the 300+ cars from Speedweek
I listed every run the car made, even under 300, because it's 300 capable.

65   AA       GS        Wooden / Vaughan   268.253   287.165   325.879   350.921   359.163
65   AA       GS        Wooden / Vaughan   286.673   302.574   338.378   361.577
65   AA       GS        Wooden / Vaughan   281.967   298.224   333.114   355.288   361.458
355   A        BGS       Grumpy Old Men   240.961   255.009   280.895   296.393   300.521
355   A        BGS       Grumpy Old Men   274.762   293.497   336.271   356.984   
411   AA       BFS       Burkland's Liner   303.199   321.243   365.611   398.807   410.997
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   159.494   0.000   0.000   0.000   0.000
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   145.527   128.705   0.000   0.000   
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   180.906   189.416   208.436   221.487   
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   123.296   112.103   127.670   158.526   152.637
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   0.000   0.000   0.000   0.000   0.000
440   AA       DS        JCB Diesel Max   240.799   254.733   285.277   308.252   313.584
989   C        DS        Chassis Engineering Special   217.392   234.962   243.678   152.631   
989   C        DS        Chassis Engineering Special   249.288   264.134   291.471   309.798   316.796
992   C        GS        Hedrich Motorsport 01   255.859   270.969   304.239   326.409   
998   AA       FS        Nish Motorsports   290.422   306.333   339.354   237.073   178.863
998   AA       FS        Nish Motorsports   294.200   311.539   348.526   372.730   380.347
998   AA       FS        Nish Motorsports   294.132   311.096   348.652   371.869   
998   AA       FS        Nish Motorsports   303.294   320.318   357.511   377.219   382.070
1715   F        BFS       Ron Main's Ecofire   262.780   276.341   296.354   202.063   
1715   F        BFS       Ron Main's Ecofire   230.589   240.571   261.005   271.486   265.787
1715   F        BFS       Ron Main's Ecofire   265.185   278.099   302.553   317.030   322.382
3551   A        BGL       Grumpy Old Men   243.697   261.066   292.483   316.282   328.870
899B   3000CC   S-BG      Top 1 Ack Attack   255.791   268.704   296.860   329.010   338.379

These are the down runs only. 23 total.
We all enjoy seeing the best cars run. You might enjoy the pro stock, but the top fuel is what you pay the money for.
I don't understand lines for any reason. You can give everybody a number and do the same thing. You pick the method for determining run order in advance, let everybody know how it works, and then page the next numbers.
If it takes anyone a long time to prep the car, let them do that off to the side while other cars run. Let them contact the starter 5 minutes prior to being ready and the starter can slot them in. It should be seamless. If the car runs into trouble and needs more time, let the next car go. Bonneville has always been ultra accomodating to racers and I think the big guns can fit in with no complaints.

[hawkwind]

The DLRA is trialing a similar thing for 2007 ,albeit at a lower speed (we only have one 300+ vehicle at present) all the 200+ vehicles that have run 200+ (we only have maybe 10) will be able to make 2 runs per day without queueing ,its a trial only so stay tuned to see if it can work
Gary

[Sumner]

What about if 300mph vehicles were allowed to put their (example) "push vehicle" in line (must be clearly identified with car number) while you were working on your car back in the pits. Then when the driver of the vehicle in line starts to get close to the starting line they radio the pit crew to come down to get in line. This way you would only have a 10 - 15 minute wait, and everything on the car would be ready to go.

When I get a chance I will see if that is OK to do according to the Bonneville procedures.

Tom G.

Tom I'm not saying they are better than the rest of us and I know the ones I've talked to don't feel that way either.  I think Porkpie and Richard did a better job of explaining than I did  .

This is also not an issue with all the 300+ mph cars as some of them have very little prep.  We were in line close to Nish a number of times this past summer and they pushed thru the line and then pulled over four or five cars back and started prepping the car while others went by them.  For them that seemed to work, if that doesn't work well for some then I feel it is a small price to pay to help to try and accommodate them. 

Nish seemed to get ready in 15-20 minutes if I remember right.  If someone like Tom waits in line and then gets up there and they have to go through say a 1 hour "get ready" to run time then they waited in line the same as you and I plus an hour.

If they could put a vehicle in line and then bring their car down when they wanted as the car in line got close to the front  and service it and then run that would be fine.  But if any of these are options I think it should be made clear at the driver's meeting so if people see someone pushing their car past everyone else then they know what was decided on and hopefully have no ill feelings.

The last point I'd like to make is that tires are precious to most of these guys and they have a lot of time and money into making maybe 2-4 runs all week and I think we should do what we can to optimize the time of the day they run and help them in that respect. 

These guys put their pants on the same as the rest of us, but their cars aren't like the rest of ours.  They are the pinnacle or our sport.

c ya,

Sum

[desotoman]

Guys,
   I think we have to look down the road and see the big picture. Last year not many 300 mph cars showed up. What happens in a few years when 300mph becomes very common place like 200mph is now. With all the new cars being built and all the electronics that have now become legal I feel 300 will be very common in a short time. Once you allow something to start it is very hard to reverse it.
   Don't get me wrong, I am not against a lottery system for starting position or a Push Truck in line so these people can work on their vehicles back in their pits. I do understand and have no problem with the above. I think that it is fair and equitable for all parties involved.
   
Tom G.

[JackD]

If you hav ever seen a 400mph vehicle, you can now kiss them goodbye because they would be foolish to run hard from the zero starting line and kill the tires.
It can and has been done but the reverse was too easy and the 400mph cars voted with their feet.
"Lack of desire is it's own reward."

[Sumner]

........... What happens in a few years when 300mph becomes very common place like 200mph is now. With all the new cars being built and all the electronics that have now become legal I feel 300 will be very common in a short time. Once you allow something to start it is very hard to reverse it................Tom G.

Tom I probably should of said 350+ instead of 300.  Yes I think there will be more cars just over 300, but tires are going to limit the really fast crowd.  Like Jack said the really fast ones you see being built today will probably go on their own time or at World Finals.  It is a shame for us at Speed Week.

Most of us can make run after run on our tires and the time of day doesn't matter much, so where we end up in line and the time we get to the head of the line isn't that big a deal (although I think we are going to try and run in the future before 11).  The fast, let me say over 350 mph now, cars need to try and optimize every element of their run and I think fewer of them, not more, are going to show up and run at Speed Week the way it is now.  I feel there is no comparison between what they are trying to achieve performance wise and safety wise compared to the rest of us and if they feel they need to run in a certain time frame of the day I feel we should try and accommodate that for them.  I guess we are just dug into opposite positions on this .

I also want to make it clear that not one of them asked or talked to me about posting this on the board.  It was wholly my idea and I'll take any flak for it.

c ya,

Sum

[JackD]

In the face of the reality that it has been done safely before, makes it hard to believe it can't be done again.
The World doesn't begin or end at the Highboy.