Sidecar rule 7.I.11 for 2008?

[MattS]

What we are tying to do is make a level playing field for Landspeed sidecar racing, both here in the U.S. and internationally.

Then the question I have to ask is why?

I know the FIA/FIM rules are different, as are the AMA rules. As I am to understand them, the other orgs call anything over 25 years old as "vintage", where SCTA has a 1955 limit. I don't know all the sidecar rules for the "international" orgs, but I didn't know we were going to try to conform our rules to other orgs. Is this going to just be for sidecars or for all motorcycle & car classes?

I guess I have more questions than answers.



Matt

[JackD]

Movable ballast if required is a joke.
Has anybody on the salt ever weighed one  ?
If you are going to get started down that road, the weight should be taken at bottom of the chair wheel when presented as ready to run.

[bak189]

Matt, I am not speaking for SCTA/BNI, I am
only a long time landspeed sidecar racer, trying to bring the landspeed sidecar rules into the 21 Century.  As to the solo motorcycle
SCTA/BNI rules......I leave that to others to cuss
and discuss.

[MattS]

Matt, I am not speaking for SCTA/BNI, I am
only a long time landspeed sidecar racer, trying to bring the landspeed sidecar rules into the 21 Century.  As to the solo motorcycle
SCTA/BNI rules......I leave that to others to cuss
and discuss.

I run vintage, so I'm still stuck in the first half of the 20th century..... 

If they were to make a change like that, I'd adapt like everyone else. Heck, I could probably even get one of my friends to be the monkey. I just don't feel the rule change is needed.

Almost all sidecars, including my rig, do not take advantage of the sidecar rules. That is why I am working on a new one.


Matt

[bak189]

Very valid point, Jack........my proposed 2007 sidecar rules to BUB state in the last sentence:
"The ballast/weight to be determind at the Tech. Inspection by placing a approved scale under the sidecar wheel "
However, in my conversations with the various
 International Landspeed Org. in other parts of the world..........they weigh the complete sidecar without the ballast.....then weigh the complete sidecar outfit again with the ballast.........and look for the difference.  This is due to the fact THEIR rules allow you to put the 60kg any place you so chose.   I cannot see
SCTA/BNI getting a large scale to weight the few sidecars running.......I am taking small steps at a time, however, checking the weight
at the sidecar wheel can be done, but we would have to state that the 132lbs has to be mounted n the sidecar!!!!! thanks Jack

[JackD]

The weight is meant to replace the missing monkey.
Because there is no specification for the placement or materials the simple thing is to remove the required weight by removong the body and other hardware that is not required to pass tech.
I can see the lack of logic in the weight requirement when you might have a 250 lb. rider or a 90lb. rider in the same class.
Do that and I will provide the hack and the 90lb rider right away just for the record.
"Cheating yourself with bad rules is kin to beating yourself and fun to watch."

FIM has become Floundering In Mud.

[bak189]

As much as I appreciate the input and feedback.....there is one person who's
input would be very helpfull in what we are trying to do..........Landspeed Record Holder, our newest member of the SCTA/BNI M/C Comittee, and as far as I know, the driver of the fastest
sidecar in the world todate (193mph)
Bob Moreland, his insight and input would be very helpfull to this forum.
Hopefully, he has been following what is going on here.....and will take time to reply.  B.B.

[Nortonist 592]

The question of existing records is stiil hanging around.  MattS, I believe, is running on a record that has been set with no ballast.  At El Mirage Matt would have an extra 132 lbs. to accelerate over the same distance.  Maybe those with the megga HP motors may not notice the extra weight but to stick an extra 132 lbs. on a smaller capacity chair would be a killer.  If the extra weight is passed as a rule I feel that all the current records should be erased and a fresh start made.

[JackD]

Any performance related benefit that is solely the product of a rules change certainly is not the same standard as the previous entries ran against and can't be a valid comparison.
Was the original rule ill considered or is it the change ?

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

  WANTED
Very nimble person (monkey). Good strength in hands and arms. Weight between 125 lbs and 150 lbs (with riding gear) Must be willing to help balance a motorcycle with sidecar to maintain a straight line trajectory. Must not be afraid of high speed with your butt two inches off the salt. Must be willing to put your faith in God and trust the Driver with your life. No Pay, just Fun.
Any takers??

Terry A. Hume

[dwarner]

When I show pictures around the office a co-worker has asked "...isn't there anyone racing there without a beer gut and white hair?"

Reviewing his question would lead me to the realization that 132 lbs. is way too light. I suggest a passenger weight of 200 lbs. minimum.

DW

[bak189]

Yes, Terry,I have several passengers (with roadracing and sidecar background) under
150lbs ..................she only
weights in at 135lbs complete with helmet and SCTA/BNI approved leathers.  She has been at 187mph as a passenger in my sidecar, when we ran a Speed Trial in France
(on a close public road, with a 1/2km
shutdown run)   By the way do you speak French???
P.S. She is also good looking!!!!!!!!!

[jimmy six]

Even tho I don't run a M/C I cannot see the SCTA going along the the "rest of the world" over the vintage classification. The cars have never changed off of pre 1949 and just doesn't seem right to yearly change the bottom date.

That being said I won't be long until a Busa will be vintage...Of course you could just suggest another designation of let's say another 17-1800 new classes...no problem

[Loose Goose-Terry#1]

French was a language I wanted to take in high school, unfortunately it didn?t work out, and now I only speak enough French to get me in trouble. Besides, my wife probably wouldn?t appreciate me running with a ?good looking? French girl in the sidehack.
  In the interest of getting back to the proposed rule, I think that an empty sidecar weight established for each engine displacement class would probably be the only realistic way to approach this issue. It wouldn't be appropriate to set a "universal" weight for all classes. Set a weight of 100 lbs on the tag wheel and you burden the small displacement classes and give the advantage to larger displacement bikes with the engine torque and stability mass. If there is to be a minimum tag wheel weight, then it should be on a graduated scale. Start at 25 lbs and go up from there with a maximum of the 150 or 200 lbs mentioned before.
How would this effect the sidecar streamliner class??

[Nortonist 592]

The problem I have with the weight "suggestion" is that sidecar racers with the SCTA are not running for international records.  So why do we need an international rule?  If we are to have one international rule why not drop the SCTA rules and adopt the FIM rules?  That would be neat.  No roll cages for streamliners.  Fire walls aren't needed etc.  Thats an attempt at sarcasm by the way.  In the rule book there are 50cc sidecar classes with records.  What would happen to those records if 132 lbs were added?  As I said in an earlier post would a 1650cc SC/F notice an extra 132 lbs.?  I think the rules as they are are fine for El Mirage and Bonneville.  They don't need to be brought into the 21st century.  As someone in England wrote, in the eighties, about sidecars.  "Sidecars are ridden and raced for fun.  Were they to be considered seriously they would have died out before the first world war."