Author Topic: Motorcycle Safety Question  (Read 4467 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Motorcycle Safety Question
« on: December 17, 2006, 10:03:37 AM »
Recently I read an article in Cycle World regarding motorcycle land speed racing - and the great streamliner shootout on the salt this year. In that article they stated that no motorcyclist has ever fatally crashed at Bonneville. For those that know the competition history can I ask if that is true. I am also curious regarding how frequently there are accidents and if they result in serious injury. I know this is an unpopular topic, but I would like to understand the risk as I am planning to run this year - hopefully to 200 MPH. I will be as well prepped as possible for the event but have no experieince riding on salt....
Thanks for the help.
Kevin

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13169
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 10:36:15 AM »
Kevin, lots of folks will be better able to answer your questions than am I, but I'll touch on one subject -- the skills you'll need to go 200 mph on a bike at Bonneville.

You don't show up and go balls-to-the-wall on your first run.  First of all, of course, your bike and your safety garb will be inspected to assure that they're ready to take you to speed -- and to protect you in case of an incident.  Once you're through inspection you must make a series of runs down the course at ever-increasing speeds.  These are your "licensing runs", and you must inform the starter that you're about to make a license pass.  The course watchers and other safety patrol folks will keep an extra-sharp eye on you as you go down the course, and -- assuming you are successful in making a good run, you'll return to the starter to have him sign off on your timing slip, indicating that you were successful at that speed.  That timing slip is taken to registration where you present it and are given a competition license reflecting your speed.

You need a valid state driver license to run at all -- that allows you to go 125.  A pass with speed between 125-149 gets you the next license, and then 150-174, 175-199, 200-249, 250-299, and then, upon making a safe pass at speeds above 300, you get an unlimited license.

These "competition" licenses are not just paper -- they allow the officials to be sure you've had some "driver training" runs, at ever-increasing speeds, so they AND YOU know better what to expect as you're going fast.

I think there are examples of pretty famous race car drivers that have been at extreme high speeds -- Indy, maybe, or NASCAR, for instance, that figured they didn't need to make licensing (i.e. driver training runs) -- and after they spun at high speed, or had other issues -- they meekly admitted that maybe the officials and sanctioning organisations knew better.

So - look forward to a few runs down the course at ever-increasing speeds.  Every pass is a thrill.  Enjoy them all.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2006, 10:58:45 AM »
That was a pretty good explanation for sure.
The fact that his wife is always there she made him write it on his hand and often repeat it seems to be working. LOL
 She also rides to be sure he is doing it correctly .
More to your question, the MC entries have what is probably the best safety record in Motorsports.
 Part of it is you rarely have a mechanical failure that results in a get off and you tend to scare yourself before you get too far over your head.
Anything can happen and has but the rules and procedures are there to not only protect you but protect the sport from you.
Has there been MC a death at Bonneville, YES.
Years ago a MC liner was doing warm up test runs without the required supervision and use of the mandatory safety measures.
 He lost his life when he crashed and came out of the protective measures he failed to use.
It was on his own and not during an authorized run.
About 1/3 of the entries at Speedweek are Bikes.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 04:47:07 AM by JackD »
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2006, 11:08:47 AM »
Jon,
I have an ECTA Class B license and if things go according to plan in march and may at Maxton I will have a Class A license. The bike has been professionally prepped every step of the way for safety to both Bonneville and ECTA rules - passed tech with flying colors off the trailer in September. Leathers custom made Vansons to meet or exceed both Bonneville and Maxton spec plus another grand in boots, gloves and helmet - all top of the line professional gear. No cost has been spared in setup - two seasons in progressive preparation and two previous in dreams and plans including one other bike set-up that was shelved for Plan B........ i.e. current set-up.

I am under the impression that the ECTA licence is accepted at Bonneville - am I correct? Either way would you advise progressive shake down runs to gain experieince. Is there adequate opportunities to make passes at these evenets to allow for a 125, 150, 175 and then a series of full throttle passes....

Thanks for the input.
Kevin

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2006, 11:19:04 AM »
That was a pretty good explanation for sure.
The fact that his wife is always there she made him write it on his hand and often repeat it seems to be working. LOL
 She also rides to be sure he is doing it correctly .
More to your question, the MC entries have what is probably the best safety record in Motorsports.
 Part of it is you rarely have a mechanical failure that results in a get off and you tend to scare yourself before you get too far over your head.
Anything can happen and has but the rules and procedures are there to not only protect you but protect the sport from you.
Has there been MC a death at Bonneville, YES.
Years ago a MC liner was doing warm up test runs without the required supervision and use of the mandatory safety measures.
 He lost his life when he crashed and came put of the protective measures he failed to use.
It was on his own and not during an authorized run.
About 1/3 of the entries at Speedweek are Bikes.


Jack,
I have one of those wives that is always there also...... sometimes with a bit of a worried look on her face - but quite supportive. Truth be told, my ultra conservative approac to racing can even wear on her patience as I try to systematically and progressively build up to my goals. I did my first Land Speed event at Maxton in September. She was nervous at the beginning of the event, but following the licensing passes and six 180MPH runs she told me I better figure out something to get the sled moving if I wanted to go to Bonneville next year - as it is a long drive and the goal is 200....... OUCH - did make it to 185.18 after the pep talk - but need to get the lead out to meet the goal.

So can I assume from your statement that there has been no motorcycle fatalities at an officially sponsored and event....... and also I would appreciate your insights regarding serious injuries. I know that my experience with drag racing is that it is far safer than the road.... and it seems as though Bonneville is similar. Still, I want to be educated.....
Thanks,
Kevin

Offline Glen

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7024
  • SCTA/BNI timer 1983 to 2004, Retired,. Crew on Tur
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2006, 12:09:03 PM »
Kevin
SCTA has been running at Bonneville since 1949. In all of those years there has been 7 deaths on the salt. Probably the best safety record of all motor sports. Several motor cycles have gone down for whatever reason. None were fatal, road rash and broken bones and at least one with some burns.
Glen
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline Dean Los Angeles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2006, 01:05:18 PM »
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 01:39:39 PM »
The guy that got off the Bike 2 months in a row did not understand why and fixed the wrong end of the bike.
The burns were suffered not by contact with flame but hot oil going through the leathers and super heating the sweat inside.
It sounds like your wife is satisfied with the licencing program and has rewarded you with a "PREP TALK".
The best thing is there is a lot of experience available to keep you out of trouble.
This forum is a good idea to start because if anybody gets it wrong, you can bet the curtain will fall on them quickly and does..
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006, 03:34:43 PM »

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006, 03:37:28 PM »
Kevin
SCTA has been running at Bonneville since 1949. In all of those years there has been 7 deaths on the salt. Probably the best safety record of all motor sports. Several motor cycles have gone down for whatever reason. None were fatal, road rash and broken bones and at least one with some burns.
Glen


That is an amazing safety record - thanks for the feedback.
Kevin
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 06:02:11 PM by kspz3 »

Offline RidgeRunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 11:15:17 PM »
     A few ramblin' thoughts for what they are worth.............

     I have been to Maxton as a gopher for a couple of car owners, never driven or ridden the course except to help dry the track after showers. 

     I entered and rode a bike at B'ville in '71 and '72.  Not as fast as I expected or wanted but enough for me to learn that the course is different than Maxton and will require  different mental  adjustments as well as a different mechanical set up. 

     One of the biggest differences is the course surface can change drastically from year to year at B'ville as a result of the whims of Mother Nature.  '71 was dry, hard, and rough, 'bout shook my kidneys out running struts on the back.  A few cars left rubber tire marks right off the start line.  '72 was way smoother but sloppy - salt kicked up all over everything kind of like snow during winter driving.  I would advise anyone to work up through the speeds every year until they get a LOT of experience regardless of what is required, what license they hold, or how fast they have been anywhere else.

      Check out Sumner's site and the commentary on Hooley's Stude.  Hooley got a 200 mph license in one meet, advancing the one step at a time.  They went with a well prepared car and plan, stuck with it, and the salt bears left them alone.

     The liner incident happened at Speed Weeks in '72, don't know much more details for sure than what Jack has reported.  Often it's the little things adding up that set up the big happenings.  Do know there is no longer a "warm up area" like where that happened.

     Bottom line is to have fun [go fast] and be able to make next years plans during the long drive home.  Planning on getting back to Maxton next year and eventually back to B'ville, hope to see you running fast and safe both courses.

                                                           Ed Purinton

landracing

  • Guest
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 02:53:38 AM »
Personally being a motorcycle rider on the street and salt, I think its safer to go 200+ mph on the salt during an organized event then it is to go 35 mph on the street with your bike.... Ill take the salt anyday for fast rides...

Jon

Offline JackD

  • NOBODY'S FOOL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4684
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2006, 05:28:29 AM »
For your viewing pleasure:
mms://69.93.51.164/pureguts/realtv300.wmv

http://69.93.51.164/pureguts/realtv300.wmv

Ouch...... I am assuming that was at El Mirage?

Actually the first get off was at Muroc and the 2nd at El Mirage and both for the same reason that went misunderstood and unfixed.
The problem was that late in the run when the bike finally hooked up the rear flexed under that load so fast that it spit him off.
Their is only a slight difference between riding over your head and landing on your head.
Ed is a good example of the longevity that you can expect to see and is a good place to hear the good and the bad.
He can tell when somebody is pulling his cane.  LOL
Jon and my other brother Jon both work at it pretty hard and are suitably rewarded for their participation I hope.
 We also have another brother Joe that had gone faster on 1,000 cc that most would ever imagine.
there is plenty of room for you.
GOOD LUCK
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline RidgeRunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 843
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2006, 07:28:28 AM »
Jack,

     Better check your meds, I detect a hint of mellowing  :wink:

     Execellent point about matching symptoms/problems to the right ends of the bike.  Very experienced M/C dealer told me when I started riding that a lot of times symptoms often show up on the opposit end from where the problem is.  Have found it to be true several times.  Once had a "steering" problem when I hit a bump in certain fast pavement corners while well heeled over, about went nuts checking out the front end until I discovered a tiny bit of slop in the rear swing arm.  Steel pivot shaft was worn, NOT the plastic/phenolic or whatever they were made of bushings.  Replaced shaft, "steering " problem solved.  Twofer lesson that day.

     "Snow on the roof is no indication of the fire in the stove"  :wink:

Jon A,

     Agree, any course is safer at any speed than the street/deserted backroad.  Distractions/obstructions from the ride at hand are about nil.  Professional help is readily available should the remote need present itself.

Jon "Ambassador Slim",

     Always solid advice [result of the seasonal cooling?  :wink:] from the experience/perspective of both courses/orgainizations.

Offline kspz3

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • http://www.vrodracing.com
Re: Motorcycle Safety Question
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2006, 06:07:42 PM »
Personally being a motorcycle rider on the street and salt, I think its safer to go 200+ mph on the salt during an organized event then it is to go 35 mph on the street with your bike.... Ill take the salt anyday for fast rides...

Jon


Jon - Would you happen to have a few pics of the bike in your avatar..... looks great.....but really small.
Keivn