The World's Fastest Motorcycles?

[Nortonist 592]

Its a good thing Bonneville is located in Utah.

[kspz3]

Personally, I do not consider streamliners "real motorcycles"....... to me they are more like rockets than bikes. From my perspective you must sit on a motorcycle, not enclosed (no cage), straddle the engine - you know - all the stuff that defines a motorcycle when we walk into a motorcycle shop and buy one - and drive it home - that is the essence of a motorcycle in my simple world. Now of course they take exceptional skill to pilot, are masterpeices of performance engineering, require abundant resources to make and run and repesent great risk to machine and rider in pursuit of ultimate performance.  Of course I am not a fan of drag bikes either..... but to each his own....... Kevin

[Freud]

See one in real life before you make a judgement.


FREUD

[Glen]

Freud, is he from Alabama

[Richard Thomason]

Scoots are scoots. Whether they are full dress, off-road, drag or LSR. Two wheel riders are a special breed. That's where I got my start. Won't forget my roots. Too many broken bones to still ride competitively. Most of them were not from bikes.

[ack]

Flyboy,

     Normally to go right on a bike you gently push left bar/pull back on right bar while going into a lean to the right.  Starting the same turn faster can be done by countersteering, a quick twitch of the left bar BACK/right bar FORWARD which will drop the bike into a right lean VERY QUICK.  Left turns the same just reverse the directions. You've probabley already done it without realizing what the name for it was.  Practice CAREFULLY at slow speed on an open smooth surface with no traffic, dosn't take much twitch to initiate the turn, too much and you can be down before you know it.  Yup, got my basics DOWN out in the hayfield.  Very usefull manuver to have for use to avoid an accident on the street.

     I haven't had any personal liner experience, following are observations, opinions, and from memory.

     I do remember Cal Rayborn being quoted  saying as he went through different speed "zones" he had to steer to each "zone", some left to go right and some left to go left.  Could have been related to that liner's individual CG,CP,aero etc.  His position was about as reclined as possible, more than most of todays liners.

     Money can't buy the time and experience needed, good as he was even Vesco spent time other than vertical in "development".  Remember watching the Honda Hawk slide by in the early '70's, don't remember them ever really getting dialed in.

     GIVEN the OPPERTUNITY the really good riders/drivers will rise to the top at any venue anywhere, always have always will.  Vesco, Surtees, Hailwood, Foyt, Gurney, Mann, Roberts are just a few from the past that come quickly to mind.  Am sure that Chris, Rocky, and Sam could do just as well on 240-250+ sit ons as would Joe, John, Jon, Lee, Rich, Scott could in liners if they have the inclination/oppertunity.  probably have left out many worthy names, it is never intentional from me.  I regard all competitors on the course as winners, they are out there runnin' while I'm just watchin'

You have the steering thing wrong. At any thing above trials riding speeds the way you steer a motorcycle is turn left to go right and vise versa.  The old myth about steering differently at various speed is just that.

The way this works is when you turn the front rotating wheel left the gyro effect creates a force which acts upon the forks through the axle and tries to rotate the bike mass about the front axle.  In this case clockwise looking at the back of the bike.  Because the friction of the tires and the ground the bike begins to fall to the right. If the bike is falling right faster than you want you then turn right to use the gyro force in the other direction to keep it from falling too far.  Once you have established the angle of lean required to maintain the bike in a steady turning state the front wheel will be turned in the direction you are turning.  The bike in this state is able to keep from falling over by the action of the g force exerted on the mass of the bike and rider by the angular velocity (speed and rate of turn).  The faster you go around a given turn the more you have to lean the bike to maintain this equilibrium.  It?s not quite as simple as this as there are other effects from the gyro of the rear wheel and on a sit up bike you can adjust your body to affect changes in center of gravity.

In my earlier post I said almost any one can learn to ride a motorcycle in a straight line which is true. However that is not to say that almost anyone can learn to ride a motorcycle very fast at high speed.  The riders that have all gone over 300 MPH on a motorcycle have been some of the most skilled motorcycle racers which excelled at there respective venues.  The skills required to pitch a bike sideways at 120 mph on a dirt track or drift through a corner on a road race bike are skills that can be applied to all motorcycles.  There have been many skilled motorcycle racers that have come to Bonneville and set records but have not seen any Bonneville racers go on to become top motorcycle racers in other venues.  Jack D or Glen will probably set me straight on this.

I think any good rider could learn to ride a streamliner but doing it at very high speed requires very high skill level and confidence. When Jimmy Odom crashed ours at 300 on his second attempt at high speed  then after we patched it up 6 weeks later jumped in and went 336 and Chris Carr crashed Denis?s liner the first several times he rode it and then went 354 in the 7th time he was in it for his first really high speed pass these were not your average riders.

Sit up bikes present a whole different set of challenges and the people running them at high speeds for the most part are also building and tuning them which is what LSR is mostly and should be about as this is the heart of the sport.  I don?t think any of the 300 plus streamliner riders would have any trouble riding a sit on bike but probably wouldn't be able to build one.  Well maybe Sam.

[Dean Los Angeles]

There are 16 records at Bonneville under 70 mph. Are we going to forget them too? If you have a beef with any kind of record, go out and beat it.
There are 7 records above 240 mph at Bonneville on sit-on bikes, and nobody thinks those records are less record worthy than the streamliner records.
There are 62 records between 200-250. You might feel like that many might get lost in the crowd, but any body that follows the sport knows how hard it is to push through the air to attain that speed.
291 records from 100-199. 79 below 100. A lot of these were set on open records, some in obscure classes. All you have to do is beat any one of them.
I've heard some complain that if you don't hold it for miles at Bonneville it's not the same. If you make the speed, you make the speed.
I salute everyone of you, past or present that has broken a record.

[JackD]

That ACK kid learns purty fast.
Too bad he is so old and started so late.
It could be that he spent a lot of time thinking it through, do ya think?

[Freud]

With the rubber on the current scooters, speeds are bound to skyrocket. When Vesco ran his 318 MPH record, the footprint of the driving tire was 5/8" wide. The extremely narrow profile created a radius that limited the contact patch to an unrealistically small area. Boost could not be applied until the speed was above 200 MPH.

With the width of the tire on Ack's machine, it seems to me to be much easier to get the power to the salt.

Auto tires and traction control will assist in speed increases.

Hang onto your hats. These dudes is gonna generate some serious speeds.

Landracing.com will get the word to us the quickest. TV will enhance what is old news to those that frequent this site.      THANX, Jon.


FREUD

[PorkPie]

There are 16 records at Bonneville under 70 mph. Are we going to forget them too? If you have a beef with any kind of record, go out and beat it.
There are 7 records above 240 mph at Bonneville on sit-on bikes, and nobody thinks those records are less record worthy than the streamliner records.
There are 62 records between 200-250. You might feel like that many might get lost in the crowd, but any body that follows the sport knows how hard it is to push through the air to attain that speed.
291 records from 100-199. 79 below 100. A lot of these were set on open records, some in obscure classes. All you have to do is beat any one of them.
I've heard some complain that if you don't hold it for miles at Bonneville it's not the same. If you make the speed, you make the speed.
I salute everyone of you, past or present that has broken a record.

Dean, setting a record is always something, doesn't matter how fast the record is.

Getting a record, means , breaking a earlier border. Building a fast machine, great.

What counts at first, is, that you got the guts to build and to drive this speed machine.

250 on a sit in bike, that's incredible and 350 on two wheels is out of mind, but I done also picture during the 2006 Speedweek from 50 cc racer.......

[JackD]

Fastest per CC is a mark that LSR bikes will hold over all the rest for quite awhile.
That is real racing too.
It ain't for no sissies.
Try it if you want a real challenge.

[DrofRockology]

But doesn't the classification of a streamline as a motorcycle possibly discredit the achievements of those that have gone over 240-250 mph on a sit-on bike?

by this logic the thrust ssc record discredits nolan white's records or any other record set before or since.

think abou it!

On a sit-on bike:

1)  When sitting the bike is between your legs which is true of most production motorcycles.

and in a rear-engine modified roadster the driver sits where the engine used to be.  it's still a car!

2) there's the constant streamlining with the body which is an art in itself.

notice the differences between tom burkland's streamliner and any highboy roadster.  not so sublte, are they?

they are still cars

3) If there's a wipe -out, there is nothing to protect the driver.

convertable's fit into the same description.

4) A motorcycle can be ridden on the street.

and cars can only be driven at a race track?

5) It comes assembled from a manufactorer and the driver adds his power accesories.

where did your car come from?  do you think you can buy after-market accessories to make it run faster?

i believe it is still a car.

6) When you say the word "motorcycle" it means the same in all languages.

you're right - streamlined or not!

[stwheeler]

Why don't you just check the rule book

[Marcroux]

  I talked to Don Vesco about control reversal once. He told me that the story came about because Bruce Brown who did the film ?On Any Sunday? misunderstood what Cal Rayborn had told him and put the story of control reversal in the film. Vesco said that a liner steered like a motorcycle when on two wheels but the controls reverse when you are the skids. What we really is a liner pilot to set us straight.
  When Gustav Baumm and NSU tested the flying hammock streamliners they did at Hockenheim and Nurburgring. Vic Willoughby wrote about this in his book ?Exotic Motorcycles?. Willoughby said that he was offered a chance to ride the bikes at Bonneville but his magazine editor would not let him. There were also plans to make a road race and street bike version.
  A number of people have build what are call ?feet-forward motorcycles? which have riding positions like a Baumm type streamliner and ride them on the street.
  Also don?t forget the Eccomoble.
Marc
 

[RidgeRunner]

Marc,

     Very interesting information on the Rayborn liner control topic.  I have been present at interviews [non motorsport happinings], heard the spoken words, seen the reporter write his notes, and read the paper the next morning.  Written word has been off as much as 180 degrees from the spoken,  wrong person has been listed as being quoted, and the use of excerpts  has "spun" the report.  Don't know or care about where the change occured, intent, etc, just know these things happen and do my best to try and keep an open mind and consider all the information I can gather.

     If I run across what I THINK I remember reading in my archives I will post the information and source for what it's worth.

                           Ed