Slow Car Fast

[MAYOMAN]

WOW! This is awesome. This is the powerful use of the Landracing forum to advance the sport of land speed racing. Ain't CAD wonderful? When we were designing The Blue Flame 55 years ago, it was paper and pencil drawings (and slide rule calculations). CAD provides detailed communication BEFORE committing to the metal. Now, you can get the expertise of all these guys' literally hundreds of years on the salt. I learned CAD in the years following our 1970 record - and used it to recreate the car in 3D for illustrating the design, from the paper drawings. I wish you the best success with your interesting project. Also, this presentation might inspire more of the same use of CAD to advance knowledge sharing to the "new guys" we need to keep it going on the salt. Looking forward to your follow-up when you get out there.

[matmospheric]

Matt, we use something similar on the lakester. Our axles are keyed, no splines... they are clamped and have a thru bolt as a safety to keep them in place.  They work great.  I know you are looking for a narrow solution. 
Just a question or two... do you have room for the chain based on the drive from the motor or are you using a jackshaft to get the chain in the middle.  Have you considered putting the chain outside the tires giving you the ability of having the tires close together, thus making the back of the car narrower.... chain on one side, brake on the other, both outside the tires. 
I included a pic of our lakester rear... much like you have drawn, a center section and 2 axles... just a little wider and more spread out than you would want on a liner.  The outer housings are where we have the bearings.

Yours is one of the build diaries I got inspiration from, so thank you.

I'm running straight from the motor, no jackshaft. There's just barely enough room with the motor shoved to the right. It leads to a slight increase in vehicle width, but it's mostly the cylinder head which is in the shadow of the tires anyway. I did look at putting the sprocket on the outside, but it packages well this way and I like the track width for stability.

[mabsmeier]

 I recognized that cad drawing on the thumbnail of your latest YouTube video! With your videos from Bonneville I figured it wouldn't be long until you caught the bug.

[matmospheric]

The frame is coming together. The safety structure is all tack welded together and most of the rest of the frame is cut and in place, though missing lots of triangulation and gussets.

I'm having a hard time finding someone who wants to mount my Goodyear land speed tires to my wheels. Two tire shops don't want to do it for insurance reasons, and one said their machine couldn't do it.

Does anyone have a Los Angeles tire shop they use for Land Speed tires? Bonus if they do high speed balancing.

[WOODY@DDLLC]

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?topic=15664.msg338220;topicseen#msg338220

Call Nate Jones at Cowboy Tire    Signal Hill, CA    562 597 3369  Many racers have got tires from him for years.  Tell him the particulars (where you're going to race, class record speeds, etc) and he'll give you details for your tires.  I bought my tires from him, he shaved them and delivered them to me on the salt.

He was at SpeedWeek this year and stopped by the radio trailer for a visit (so I know he hasn't retired).

PS  Ask him how he happens to have the keys for a battleship.

[matmospheric]

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?topic=15664.msg338220;topicseen#msg338220

Call Nate Jones at Cowboy Tire    Signal Hill, CA    562 597 3369  Many racers have got tires from him for years.  Tell him the particulars (where you're going to race, class record speeds, etc) and he'll give you details for your tires.  I bought my tires from him, he shaved them and delivered them to me on the salt.

He was at SpeedWeek this year and stopped by the radio trailer for a visit (so I know he hasn't retired).

PS  Ask him how he happens to have the keys for a battleship.

Exactly who I was looking for! I love it when the forums work out perfectly and quickly

I called up Nate and he's going to help me out.

[Stainless1]

Looking pretty good Matt... what are the dimensions of your box?  Inquiring minds always want to know more  :laugh

[WOODY@DDLLC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tmPkATtM_4

[tortoise]

Good on ya!
You know, FIA has 250 and 350 classes for cars. I realize suggesting new classes is looking for haters, but in this case I think it makes sense. A 250 turbo on fuel could be pretty damned fast.

[jacksoni]

Just looked at your video. I had to get my axles, front and rear built before I could design the rest of the car around them. I got them about =February. I did all the work but critical welding and the nose cone that a  brother built. Pile of metal on the floor, axles and wheels. Most nights from dinner to 10 or 11 and nearly every weekend. Painted it the day before had to leave for Bonneville with the body disassembled because wouldn't fit in the trailer intact. 6 months. The guys laughing were right. I don't recommend it and you have considerably more skills and resources than I did. Course in 1982 the meet was cancelled after I got out there from Maryland for the big El Nino that also cancelled 1983 so then had some time to work on it more.

In your video you show yourself pulling up out of the tack welded frame. No helmet and maybe an inch to spare. Unless your neck is more flexible than mine, I'd suggest doing that with helmet on and try again as I suggested previously. It still looks tight to me. That aside it looks great and I will enjoy following. Good luck. Go fast/stay safe and look forward to seeing at Speedweek, '22.

[Malcolm UK]

You know, FIA has 250 and 350 classes for cars. I realize suggesting new classes is looking for haters, but in this case I think it makes sense.

And the haters have another theme to go on if the suggestion of 250cc is supported by a Brit.

The SCTA/USFRA rules are robust enough to prevent modified karts turning up on the salt. Bring in an L class for lightest weight build classes and categories and speeds could be 150mph or more. Limit this capacity to special construction builds only perhaps? You may get people on to the first rung of the speed 'ladder'.   

[Stainless1]

USFRA already has the low rung reigned in.... Malcolm you can bring your Peel Engineering Company P50 over and run it in the 130 Club... or maybe you're a DKW or Messerschmitt KR-175 kind of guy....

No haters here.... I could do a 1/4 liter lakester with one of those little 4 cylinder 4 valve bike motors
    

OH... back to subject

[Rex Schimmer]

Matt,
Just watched your video and first thanks for the inclusion of our (Duke and myself) lakester in the vid, but next I think that I can help you with your "time management" problem. Pretty simple, 18 hours a day, 7 days a week and when the first Elmo event happens you will be about 1/2 done. I have worked on a very large number of fairly sophisticated mechanical projects ranging from extremely large CNC machine tools to a number of ground up race cars and one thing that I have found is that there is no such thing as a "five minute job". Everything takes at least, as you alluded to, three times longer than you think. And as the project comes closer to being finished more "five minute jobs" appear at which time you start to figure out which of your great ideas you really don't need to do just to make the race. One of the things that happens with projects like this is that you get a lot of the big pieces 90% done and then you bolt them together and it really looks like you have made great progress, don't believe it!  So much to do but so little time!

Your engine choice is pretty interesting, a "stock" BMW R1000 is rated at around 220 hp so at best you may get 100 hp out of two cylinders which is probably 20-25 hp down from what can be made with a 500 cc motorcycle 4 cylinder. Not sure that I would want to turn a two cylinder BMW to 14000 rpm, make sure you have good motor mounts.

Really looking forward to watching your progress.

Rex

[matmospheric]

Good on ya!
You know, FIA has 250 and 350 classes for cars. I realize suggesting new classes is looking for haters, but in this case I think it makes sense. A 250 turbo on fuel could be pretty damned fast.

I would love to do the FIA 250 class in the future. A quick look for FIA land speed events didn't show anything, but that's a project for a later time anyway.

Just looked at your video. I had to get my axles, front and rear built before I could design the rest of the car around them. I got them about =February. I did all the work but critical welding and the nose cone that a  brother built. Pile of metal on the floor, axles and wheels. Most nights from dinner to 10 or 11 and nearly every weekend. Painted it the day before had to leave for Bonneville with the body disassembled because wouldn't fit in the trailer intact. 6 months. The guys laughing were right. I don't recommend it and you have considerably more skills and resources than I did. Course in 1982 the meet was cancelled after I got out there from Maryland for the big El Nino that also cancelled 1983 so then had some time to work on it more.

In your video you show yourself pulling up out of the tack welded frame. No helmet and maybe an inch to spare. Unless your neck is more flexible than mine, I'd suggest doing that with helmet on and try again as I suggested previously. It still looks tight to me. That aside it looks great and I will enjoy following. Good luck. Go fast/stay safe and look forward to seeing at Speedweek, '22.

I tried with a helmet and SFI padding zip tied in. The frame was designed around a 3D scan of me in all my gear. It's tight, but I fit.

Matt,
Just watched your video and first thanks for the inclusion of our (Duke and myself) lakester in the vid, but next I think that I can help you with your "time management" problem. Pretty simple, 18 hours a day, 7 days a week and when the first Elmo event happens you will be about 1/2 done. I have worked on a very large number of fairly sophisticated mechanical projects ranging from extremely large CNC machine tools to a number of ground up race cars and one thing that I have found is that there is no such thing as a "five minute job". Everything takes at least, as you alluded to, three times longer than you think. And as the project comes closer to being finished more "five minute jobs" appear at which time you start to figure out which of your great ideas you really don't need to do just to make the race. One of the things that happens with projects like this is that you get a lot of the big pieces 90% done and then you bolt them together and it really looks like you have made great progress, don't believe it!  So much to do but so little time!

Your engine choice is pretty interesting, a "stock" BMW R1000 is rated at around 220 hp so at best you may get 100 hp out of two cylinders which is probably 20-25 hp down from what can be made with a 500 cc motorcycle 4 cylinder. Not sure that I would want to turn a two cylinder BMW to 14000 rpm, make sure you have good motor mounts.

Really looking forward to watching your progress.

Rex

If I was putting money on it, I would bet that I am not finished by May ElMo, or even June. If I aim for being done by Speed Week, I'll probably be done this time next year. but if I aim for May El Mirage, I might be done by this year's Speed Week. I've been through my share of race car projects, and I know the 80/20 rule pretty well. I also know that projects fill all available time. It doesn't matter if I don't make El Mirage, or Speed Week 2022 for that matter. I'll be finished when I'm finished. The schedule is all made up with no consequences. Honestly, if I just get a naked rolling chassis to El Mirage in May for tech inspection, I'll be stoked.

[matmospheric]

I have a new build video up if anyone is interested. Constructive criticism is most welcome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ebYRigOu1g