Conceptual discussion - "Best" platform for a G/BG or G/BF engine.

[SteveM]

It's a long drive back from Wendover to St Louis, MO.

Along the way, our team started talking about what engine platform would make for the "best" G class (2.0 liter) blown gas and/or blown fuel engine.

Options discussed include the

A.   Mitsubishi 4g63, which we've been told can handle huge amounts of boost & fuel.
B.   Any number of VW/ Audi based 2 liter engines, like the 5-valve VW "20-20" engine which has powered a VW Passat to 237 mph.
C.   Mopar 2.4L 16V, de-stroked to 2 liters (SRT4-based engine)
D.   GM Ecotec 2.0L, with enough
E.    Honda K-series engines, which have definitely been proven HP makers.

Please share your thoughts, and particularly any practical experience you might have with these, or other suitable 2 liter engines.

Thanks,

Steve.

[sabat]

Interesting idea. I'm a bike guy, but these sorts of questions are usually framed by limits. Is money a consideration?  Do you care how how big it is?  -Dean

[SteveM]

Money is always an issue, but I wouldn't want to miss out on the ability to set a record because of "cheaping out" along the way.

Regarding physical size, there are some space limitations, but most of these 2 liter 4-bangers are in the same general size range. G class allows engines in the displacement range of 1.524 - 2.014 Liters, or 93 - 122.99 cubic inches.

[bambrose]

One challenge with Honda K series is that they are all FWD platform.  To get them to RWD platform you have to get a bellhousing conversion to the S2000 or T5, both available on the market.  You also have to convert the intake manifold to an "S2000 style" type, forward facing.

Additionally they are exactly at the limit, so any overbore, even a service overbore of 10 thous, puts you in the next class up.  That means no rebuilds.


Outside of those challenges, it is a good platform for making reliable HP.

I'm using a K in my planned build.

K series is not an iron block, a downside to both weight and strength where weight is good on the salt, but they have a sandwiched girdle main cap assembly which is extremely robust.

[SteveM]

Good news for me is that I'm looking for FWD applications.

Since "most" of the 2-liter-ish engines were available as transverse mount FWD, that is a feature for my use.

Steve.

[Crackerman]

I have been a turbo mitsu guy for YEARS. I love the 4g63 platform, super stable up to 800 hp without much work,, and 1100 is just a little bit more work.

Lots of aftermarket support is available, and will have no problems supporting your needs. However, finding core parts is harder than it ever has been now. Join dsm forums to find hard parts.

The good news 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.4 variants are available in 6 bolt mitsu (and Hyundai) and in 7 bolt mitsu, Hyundai and Kia.

[sabat]

My 2 cents is to go with the platform with the most aftermarket support.

[SteveM]

Thank you, Crackerman!!!!

Yeah - the availability of 4G63 engines and/or cores doesn't look plentiful, but the power potential is certainly encouraging and at least there are some available.


Since you seem to have a good basis of knowledge, my next "Coconut to crack" is to figure out what kind of FWD transaxles with gearing suitable for LSR are available.  Do you have any insight on that topic, to point me in the right direction?  I'm pretty conversant on GM, Mopar, and VW transaxles, but have virtually no knowledge regarding what works for those Mitsu engines.  There's always the option of an adapter plate, but I'd prefer to stay away from that path.

Steve.

[Paulin adelaide]

for some engine porn google bullet race engineering here in adelaide south australia .

[bearingburner]

Go with lakester. Less concerns will body meet class requirements. Steel tubing cheaper than used car. No rust to fix

[SteveM]

Go with lakester. Less concerns will body meet class requirements. Steel tubing cheaper than used car. No rust to fix

I already have a record-setting MMP truck that I would like to run in some different classes.  That was the root of the "bench racing" session amongst our team.  The intention of this thread is to solicit information regarding different engine options that could run in G class Blown Gas and Blown Fuel.  Changing from a truck to a lakester is beyond the scope of this exercise.

Steve.

[SteveM]

for some engine porn google bullet race engineering here in adelaide south australia .

Thank you!  I just perused the Bullet Race Engineering website.  That is some absolutely sexy stuff.  The danger is that once I get my eyes used to looking at that kind of porn, I get desensitized.  It's like going to the PRI trade show every year, looking at Holinger sequential shift dog-boxes.  Before too long, a $20K gearbox starts looking reasonable.

Steve.

[Rex Schimmer]

I would go with the Mitsubishi package. There are some guys back east that have ran a pretty stock bodied car (a small box mounted onto a larger box body configuration) with a turbo and have gone way over 200 and I talked to one of them and that was with a stock crank and rods! I do not remember their names but I am sure you could find out.

Rex

[Crackerman]

Mike Reichen, world's fastest and quickest street legal evo2. Crushed many tuners in the 0-200-0 shootout at fort Stockton years ago. Also went 217 standing mile at Texas mile 2009ish? His engine is super simple, and a box stock S475 or s480, plus excellent tuning.

Flying Evo 2ning is either his company, or his friends, and I forget his name.

[fordboy628]

Steve,

Personally, I tend to favor the "rice grinders".    Plentiful, cheapish, and can handle boost and rpm.   LOTS of parts available for both the Mitsubishis and Hondas, off the shelf.  The VW/Audi family is a possibility, but probably more expensive.   Consider that ANY high rpm, high output power unit is like socks or underwear . . . . . . and NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, occasionally . . . . .  OR, you suffer a noisy, expensive consequence.

When considering a decision like this on a professional basis, I always want to know about underlying "engine geometry", and valve area Vs bore area.    I want to know certain things, and not be, surprised.   You will want to "model" some of the possibilities, to attempt to make an intelligent decision.    A program like Engine Analyst, will be helpful.

And lastly, the best advice I can give you is this:   Do not consider your engine a "blower motor".    Instead, think of it and build it as if it was a normally aspirated engine operating at higher than atmospheric pressure.  It will be "more efficient" that way.    Blowers and boost solve lots of computational errors . . . . .  Try not to make them in the first place . . . . . .