Author Topic: Streamliner Design  (Read 31580 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Streamliner Design
« on: January 13, 2021, 05:38:49 AM »
Hello from NYC!!! This is my first post. Little about me.
Uneducated gearhead. The most education ive received in aerodynamics was when I was 8 years old. My father took me to see Mad Max 2 in the theatre. I learned what a supercharger was and instantly fell in love with the internal combustion engine. Also, Lord Humgunous scared the crap out of me. Also around the same time, I was attempted to pour my cup of flat soda out the window from a moving car, resulting in soda all over the inside and outside of the car. I thought it was cool. My father, not so much.
Fast forward forty years, Im a metal fabricator by trade and a half ass designer/engineer/compliance manager. Accomplished R/C drag racer with 3 national championships and a record in the Nitro Pro Stock class. The class changed so much that technically my record still stands after 14 years. Ive also contributed a lot of RC drag innovations that is the benchmark for chassis and motor design today. I havent accomplished much else in life so thats all I got. Now onto the bread n butter of this post. I have some questions. If you cant contributed information on the subject, sarcasm is always appreciated  lol8

All my questions is based on safety rather than performance. Im planning on air flow testing a model and dont want to waste anymore time on designing something if I dont have to.

1. Hows that wheelbase look to you? I feel its the longest I can make it without the aft panels coming in too fast to the center of the car.

2a. Where do I get info on the parachute systems on these cars? From what I see, they are ballastic chutes? What powers them and what size would I need for 230mph @ 1600lbs?

2b. I have the chute centerline towards the top of the wheel in the drawing. Should it be closer to the axle centerline?

3. Im thinking hardtail with 1.5" of front suspension travel. ( 1" compression, 0.5" rebound) Is that safe?

4. With only a inch or two of tire sticking out of the body, in a closed wheelwell, do I need to run wheel covers or could I get away with typical drag style wheels?

5. At Bonneville, is finding peanut butter cups hard to find or should I bring a stash?

6. I think ultimately I would use a premade canopy and base the design on that. Not that Im lazy and cant make a vacuum mold for it. Ok, I lied, Im a bit lazy but too broke to have someone else do it lol. Where do I find canopies?

Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 06:38:17 PM by John Clutch »

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2021, 05:50:42 AM »
For whatever reason, I couldnt preview the post before posting it, so if any typos, blame the internet thanks.

Offline manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4146
  • What, me worry?
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2021, 09:59:43 AM »
Call Stroud for parachute info. Peanut butter cups are rare at Bonneville- bring plenty.
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8973
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2021, 10:44:22 AM »
OK, where is everything? 
Your car should only be large enough to hold you and all the stuff you put in there... The parts of the car that are not there require no streamlining.  To kinda quote Jack Costella and me... don't go through the air, go under it.  There is a lot of drag generated by hauling lots of air inside your car.
Ok that means the smaller the better...
Why are you starting your taper after the rear wheels
You want your parachute to pull straight back, if you want to see how Ack did that read more of the stuff on this site. But basically the vertical center of gravity.
Suspension... hardtail with travel?  I would have suspension at Bonneville on all wheels.  My new suspension is about 1 up and 1/2 down.  Start looking at build diaries...
Nobody makes canopies... with that said it is not impossible to do and Gustafsson Plastics, Inc makes windscreens, in fact you might even find Lakester windshield in their product line...
Ok, get a rule book, keep designing, go to Bonneville and look at the cars. If you bring PBCs you might get invited to climb in cars to help you see how much room you need. 
We let kids of all ages sit in our Lakester.  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2021, 12:47:08 PM »
Thanks guys. Manta, I contacted John @ Stroud and got the ball rolling on the parachute.
Stainless, if the car was any narrower, I would be sitting sideways. Its as wide as the cage and enough height I think I would be comfortable sitting in. I see guys with their shoulders under the bars and have to slide into their seat like they are changing a transmission on jackstands. If my ass was on fire, I dont want to take any longer to get out of the car than needed. 28" is wide enough. Plus I want some room to scratch my butt if need be. Its tapering passed the tires because im not ready to get into a car with a rear track width of 15", plus the plan is a rear mounted, chain drive snowmobile motor, mounted between the tires. That width gives me enough room to get a motor, drivetrain and a single brake caliper, if I want the motor positioned as is. But Im not even there yet. I want to get a model built and wind tested before concentrating on all that.

Offline ggl205

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 956
  • G/FL 218.282 since 1995. G/FL record since 1993.
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2021, 01:35:56 PM »
We let kids of all ages sit in our Lakester.

And some moms too.

John

Offline jimmy six

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2788
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2021, 04:19:00 PM »
You scratch your butt at the end of the run or before you get in. I can?t scratch mine and I?m in a roadster.
Your design doesn?t matter if you have a lot more horsepower than your competitors.
Good Luck and continue to have fun first..
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2021, 04:59:10 PM »
Is this Jimmy Six from Egg Harbor?

Offline desotoman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2816
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2021, 05:24:49 PM »

plus the plan is a rear mounted, chain drive snowmobile motor, mounted between the tires.


John,

What kind of conversion do you have to run the snowmobile motor on Steam?
The site likes people to put your location in your avatar, as you might have some folks from the site who live close to you. Thanks.

Tom G.
I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2021, 06:21:00 PM »
See. I knew not being able to preview my post before was gonna bite me on the ass. I was thinking methanol steam.

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Steamliner Design
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2021, 06:23:23 PM »
Ok. John @ Stroud set me up with some details I needed, so I can get to work on a model for testing. Wish me luck.

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Streamliner Design
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2021, 08:30:26 AM »
Ok. Before I started designing the car, I bought the rulebook. I based all my rollcage dimensions from the reclined position image, with the seat back angle as my starting point. Today I found a article on Mark Lingua's K/BFS that he set the record with in August of 1991. The man is literally laying down in the car with the front hoop in line with the side of his helmet. Today the rules states the bar needs to be 3" in front of the helmet and any deviations from the provided layouts needs approval. Is that driver's position legal today?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 08:31:59 AM by John Clutch »

Offline bearingburner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 511
Re: Streamliner Design
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2021, 10:50:40 AM »
When we started on our lakester we built a preliminary frame and roll cage design from 2X2 wood. Quickly found several flaws in design before cutting and welding tubing.

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8973
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: Streamliner Design
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 10:54:56 AM »
There have been lots of safety updates since Mark set his record.  I don't remember when it changed, but he may even have had a 1.5" roll bar because that was legal for G and smaller.  I think it was sometime in the 90s when we had to update our bar to 1 5/8 and add protection to 3 inches in front of the helmet. 
I can tell you that a new streamliner did not pass tech last year because the roll bar was about 1/8 inch under the 3 inch requirement.  I do not believe you will be able to get that deviation approved... unless maybe if your ZIP starts with a 9  :evil: OK, that's an inside joke.... I do not think any deviation related to safety can be approved because the meet's  insurance is based around the safety rules.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline John Clutch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
Re: Streamliner Design
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 11:42:54 AM »
Thanks Stainless. What about the nearly laying down driver's position?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 11:58:17 AM by John Clutch »