Scale modellers questions

[Jantrix]

I probably put this in the wrong section earlier. I'll try it here, since I'm asking questions about older cars.

Hi there. My apologies, my interest doesn't lie so much in land speed racing and such as much as building the cars in scale. So I'm hoping you'll tolerate my presence and my silly questions. I'm a 38 year old hobbyist lliving in Jax, Florida. I'm currently building a rather unusual land speed race car.



This is a 56 T-bird with nearly two scale feet removed from centerline. The wheels will be open outside the body, and the wheel wells filled. I'm trying to build something that looks like it may have been running in the 60's or 70's but is unusual and eyecatching. Here's my questions.

1. The Ford 427 SOHC "cammer" engine. Widely used "back in the day" among the 1/4 mile crowd. Was it widely used in land speed racing? This is my intended engine. My only other alternative is a Ford 312 with a centrifugal supercharger. Which would be more likely used back then?

2. Coolant. 1/4 milers often ran without any sort of coolant supply/recirculation. Salties run much longer distances. Were they run with a radiator or some sort of water tank/pump? I've seen many cars with the grills comletely paneled in, hence my question.

3. Windscreen. This car will be open cockpit. Many such cars I've seen don't seem to run with a windscreen. Why would or would not a car use a windscreen?

4. Assuming this car is steel bodied, running the 427 with a supercharger, and running on pump gas, what catagory would this car run in, that might be displayed on the car (ie. AA/G albeit a drag catagory, but you get my meaning)? I've looked at the catagories, and to tell you the truth I can't make heads or tails out of it. A best guess would be fine, if anyone gets that nit-picky with my build, they can drop dead.

I beg you indulgance on these questions, and appreciate any assistance. Feel free to e-mail me at jantrix_too@yahoo.com if you'd rather not answer here. The reason I say so, is that I posted similar questions on a drag racing forum not long ago, and was basicly scoffed at and ignored. I'm hoping to find finer folks here. Thanks in advance.

[dwarner]

Jan,

Lose the springs, put the wheel/tires inside the body, put a water tank in the trunk, a small windscreen or windshield in front of the driver and covered cockpit are more in line with LSR. With the blown 427 the car would be classed as B/BMS, don't tell anyone that the body has been narrowed, that is not allowed in production based body classes.

DW

[jimmy six]

I've looked at a lot of happenings of that era but I don't remeber anyone cutting 2 feet out of the middle of anything running at that time...Tom Byrant could chime in here...In my opinion it would better if you constructed one like Knot Farringtons T-Bird, but have at it...At least a 20 gallon water tank would be scale.

[Jantrix]

Well it seems I've created a fictional style lakester, so I'll give it a fictional class later on. Something like B/MPR (modified production roadster). Who's gonna argue with me? Water tank in trunk. Check. Covered cockpit. Check, will create a tonneau that covers all but drivers noggin & roll bar.

Wheels in the body, not possible, body is too narrow. Like I said who's gonna argue at a model competition?

Loose the springs? You mean go with coil overs and a four link or ladderbars?

Appreciate the assistance. As for building a true (not fictional) LSR vehicle, there is a Stude Avanti kit waiting in the garage for just such a build. If anyone knows someone who races one, I'd love an email addy or URL. Jimmysix, dwarner, thanks. People often seem hesitant about giving advice to scale modellers. I wish I knew why.

[aircap]

Having the wheels outside the body is VERY un-aerodynamic, that's why it's been suggested to put them back inside. But you can do what you like.

A lot of salt racers have little or even no suspension - the salt is mostly flat.

Hope you don't have someone who knows salt racers at the model show - I've seen a lot of them in "straight line" classes.

You could run as a "time only" like a fellow with a very developed '32 Ford we see on the salt.

For pix of Avantis on the salt you might try here -

http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/Speedweek%2006/results.htm

scroll down to the table of photos and enjoy!

[Jantrix]

Having the wheels outside the body is VERY un-aerodynamic, that's why it's been suggested to put them back inside. But you can do what you like.

A lot of salt racers have little or even no suspension - the salt is mostly flat.

Hope you don't have someone who knows salt racers at the model show - I've seen a lot of them in "straight line" classes.

You could run as a "time only" like a fellow with a very developed '32 Ford we see on the salt.

For pix of Avantis on the salt you might try here -

http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/Speedweek%2006/results.htm

scroll down to the table of photos and enjoy!

Thanks. Good advice. Truth is, I just wanted to try narrowing out a car. And then making it a lakester, just seemed something cool and different to do. I wasn't shooting for authenticity, necessarily. I've scrapped the 427 SOHC, and using a 312 with a centrifugal supercharger. The blown 427 was WAY to tall to have even a resemblance of aerodynamics. Even with a snorkle it would look odd. I'll consider scapping the suspension, and adding a belly pan.

[RidgeRunner]

     Bill Burke & Family ran a Avanti in the early '70's.  You might check out some magazine coverage from that time for photo's. 

     1st gen Camaro kit?  VanProthro [sp?] made some very impressive runs in the '70's.
     
     Ford Starliner kit?   Carol Miller drove his up from Texas in the '60's and did very well.

     Salt Fever has no bounds regardless of scale.

[Sumner]

Having the wheels outside the body is VERY un-aerodynamic, that's why it's been suggested to put them back inside. But you can do what you like.

A lot of salt racers have little or even no suspension - the salt is mostly flat.

Hope you don't have someone who knows salt racers at the model show - I've seen a lot of them in "straight line" classes.

You could run as a "time only" like a fellow with a very developed '32 Ford we see on the salt.

For pix of Avantis on the salt you might try here -

http://www.scta-bni.org/Bonneville/Speedweek%2006/results.htm

scroll down to the table of photos and enjoy!

Thanks. Good advice. Truth is, I just wanted to try narrowing out a car. And then making it a lakester, just seemed something cool and different to do. I wasn't shooting for authenticity, necessarily. I've scrapped the 427 SOHC, and using a 312 with a centrifugal supercharger. The blown 427 was WAY to tall to have even a resemblance of aerodynamics. Even with a snorkle it would look odd. I'll consider scapping the suspension, and adding a belly pan.

One other thing about wheels/tires is we run very narrow ones with a tread width of only about 6 inches, so you could probably get some of those inside the body.  Getting the wheels in would go a long ways towards making the car appeal to this crowd.

Hope you keep posting pictures as you progress no matter what course you take.

c ya,

Sum

[dwarner]

As long as this is a fictional car, why not stretch the wheelbase far enough to get the front wheels in front of the engine. You can then move them inside the body. Use narrow wheels and tires. Tub the rear to get the wheels inside. Use a bellypan.

My comment about lose the springs is that we run solid suspension in a lot of cars. There is no need for springing in a good year. Some cars will have the front axle welded to the frame or minimal travel suspension such as hockey pucks. The rear can be welded to the frame or limited travel coil over/air bags.

Good Luck,

DW

[jimmy six]

OK Dan let's duke it out. All cars should be sprung. Even the scale ot this model has a short wheel base and needs it.  A period model of this time would probably have a solid rear.
The Ferguson lakester is sprung like a lot of them now. I don't know of any liners that aren't. Roadster guys are all nuts, we all know that.. Let the spring/solid war begin.......................J.D.

[dwarner]

I quit, was over 

DW

[dwarner]

  Whoops - I meant WAR over

DW

[Tom Bryant]

In my humble opinion, ...stretch the car, put the wheels inside, windscreen, full belly-pan and figure some kind of supension. This would be a likely Bonneville car. There were no cars that I know of the ran a narrowed car body with the wheels outside in the fities and sixties. There were several that were stretched, Knots Farringtons "Hell's Angel", a Corvair, #1000 I believe, to name a couple.

Any narowed car body will run streamliner, lakester or time only, I suspect. I don't think you would need to tell the tech people if it had two feet taken out of the middle.

I guess it depends on what your mission is...realisim or just a unique car.

[Freud]

The only place to get the feel for the model is the SALT. Be there and it will be easier to understand these comments. There is nothing like it.

FREUD