Breaking the Land Speed Record. Unlimited Budget, How Long, How Fast, How Much?

[jl222]

My question is, if you were a billionaire and wanted to break the current Land Speed Record of 763mph by Thrust SSC

1. how long would it take you to either buy a car already made, North American Eagle, Aussie Invader, Steve Fossetts Sonic Wind... or a make a custom made car and break the current 763mph record?
2. what would you use for power?
3. what speed could you easily reach?
4. how much do you think it would cost? Say that you agree to pay workers $50,000 per year, pay all their living expenses while working, provide free food and sleeping rooms, and pay their normal bills at home so they don't go broke while working to build/run the car?
5. include anything else you think would be important.

I just watched the SpaceX launch of their heavy rocket and saw the 2 rocket boosters land upright, side by side, which goes to show you that a land speed record should be obtainable compared to that. This 1 minute video shows the boosters as they fire their rockets prior to landing with sonic booms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_kfM-BmVzQ

10 most wealthiest people in the US as an example of who could easily afford it:
Bill Gates of Microsoft 81 Billion
Jeff Bezos of Amazon 67 Billion
Warren Buffet Bershire Hathaway 65 Billion
Mark Zuckerber Facebook 55 Billion
Larry Ellison Oracle 49 Billion
Michael Bloomberg Bloomberg LP 45 Billion
Charles Koch 42 Billion
David Koch 42 Billion
Larry Page Google 38 Billion
Sergey Brin Google 37 Billion

1.  About 5-8 years (please note that money would be spent like it's going outta style)

2.  A single throttleable hybrid rocket engine that could be replaced by a new one in less than an hour

3.  800 mph

4.  Probably more than a billion dollars, but possibly less than two billion dollars.  The workers would be much more expensive
     than what you described, and it's likely that a much larger team of people would be required, compared to early
     guesstimate(s).

5.  Many, many test runs, at gradually increased speeds; using the Black Rock Desert, with (many, many) lanes pre-prepared
     and 20-25 miles long.  This includes using sonar or other suitable method to detect hidden hazards (such as rocks) buried
     up to 6 inches below the playa surface.  Many, many spare parts, such as engines, parachutes, wheels, etc.  Money can be
     a wonderful tool if enough is available.

  how could you not include the obvious? Elon Musk, builder of the SpaceX? Net worth 148 billion who has lost
more net worth than some on your list.

 And is capable of building record setting machines.

      JL222

[TrickyDicky]

That car exists - The Blue Flame - in the museum in Sinsheim, Germany
Ray Dausman, Pete Farnsworth, and Dick Keller built that car 52 years ago.
1. 2 years construction and testing
2. 22,000 pounds thrust bi-propellant rocket - HTP and LNG - refueled between runs
3. designed for 825mph peak speed - 815mph kilometer average speed - transonic wind tunnel verified
4. $4million to build in 2023 - $500,000 in 1970
5. pneumatic tires and wheels were tested at Goodyear at 850mph - would be able to run on the salt flats
We had to detune The Blue Flame rocket in 1970 because Goodyear restricted our maximum speed, just for 1970, to 700mph. We hit a peak speed of 660mph mid-mile with a 630mph kilometer record.
The sponsor decided not to pursue the Mach1 goal in 1971 as the risk/reward for them - the American Gas Association - was not good for publicity.

I have often wondered why no one has attempted to build what you might call "Blue Flame II".  In particular, why has no one (AFAIK) used a similar rocket design that demonstrably (in 1970) is ample for the job?

Or does Aussie Invader 5R match the "Blue Flame II" description?  In which case, why is it taking so long to even get to an initial test run (let alone a record attempt)?

[Malcolm UK]

Quote - Or does Aussie Invader 5R match the "Blue Flame II" description?  In which case, why is it taking so long to even get to an initial test run (let alone a record attempt)?

Invest in a copy of the book "Rosco - The Fastest Aussie on Earth" from Amazon and you will understand all about the AI5R vehicle and its team leader.

[tallguy]

[/quote]

  how could you not include the obvious? Elon Musk, builder of the SpaceX? Net worth 148 billion who has lost
more net worth than some on your list.

 And is capable of building record setting machines.

      JL222
[/quote]

I don't think that Elon Musk has the attention span or the interest in this kind of thing.  It would be nice to see him toss his
hat into that ring, though.  In fact, I'd like to see any billionaire do this.

[jl222]

  Elon musk, with short attention span? Now I know why you excluded him, spoken by a true liberal.
 
                          JL222

[TD]

I have often wondered why no one has attempted to build what you might call "Blue Flame II".  In particular, why has no one (AFAIK) used a similar rocket design that demonstrably (in 1970) is ample for the job?

In a 2014 Motor Trend interview (https://www.motortrend.com/news/craig-breedlove-americas-600-mph-man/) Breedlove describes what happened to his plans to build a rocket-powered LSR car.  It isn't completely clear what propellants he was thinking of using but describes a sudden inability to source hydrazine, HTP, and nitrogen tetroxide from industry.  This motivated a switch back to jet power.

Rocketry and ICBM fans will recognize hydrazine (UDMH) and N2O4 as Titan II propellants. 

Further I recall McGlashan found he could not source HTP anywhere in Australia and so now plans to use turpentine as fuel and white fuming nitric acid as oxidizer.

Tim

[MAYOMAN]

TrickyDicky ? ?why is it taking so long to get a test run??
YOU DON?T NEED A BILLIONAIRE ? just a plan.
On the back cover of SPEEDQUEST-Inside The Blue Flame I stated: In the early 1960s, land speed racers bought surplus aircraft turbojet engines ? and found out how fast they could go.
In 1965, three guys from Milwaukee decided how fast they wanted to go (Mach 1)! Then they decided to build their own rocket engine to go that fast. Progressively, they built and tested 25, 2500, and 22,000 pound thrust rockets. Then built the car and set the LSR.
Plan ahead and (KISS) keep it simple stupid!

[MAYOMAN]

Tallguy ? item number 5
800 mph expenses?
?Many, many test runs? e.g., using the Black Rock Desert, with many, many lanes prepared? this includes using sonar? to detect hidden hazards buried up to 6 inches below the playa surface.?

Again, pneumatic tires/wheels do not carve ruts in the surface for steering stability. Gooodyear built and tested the tires and our wheels at 850mph. CRAGAR built the wheels to our design.

We made more than 24 runs on the 10 mile long and 120 feet wide Bonneville International course with no damage to the 2 lanes. The friction coefficient of rubber on the salt provided excellent yaw control.

[MAYOMAN]

The Blue Flame?s steering was a 4-bar link controlling the paired 2 front wheels. 90-degree steering wheel rotation produced plus or minus one-degree wheel angular movement. This provided a quarter mile turning radius. Coil over shocks provided the front suspension.

[MAYOMAN]

Using The Blue Flame rocket motor for propulsion provided a 36-inch wide low frontal area streamlined chassis design, minimizing aerodynamic drag.

[tallguy]

Tallguy ? item number 5
800 mph expenses?
?Many, many test runs? e.g., using the Black Rock Desert, with many, many lanes prepared? this includes using sonar? to detect hidden hazards buried up to 6 inches below the playa surface.?

Again, pneumatic tires/wheels do not carve ruts in the surface for steering stability. Gooodyear built and tested the tires and our wheels at 850mph. CRAGAR built the wheels to our design.

We made more than 24 runs on the 10 mile long and 120 feet wide Bonneville International course with no damage to the 2 lanes. The friction coefficient of rubber on the salt provided excellent yaw control.

MAYOMAN, Thank you for all your informative and well-illustrated postings here.  I never argue with successful results.
It's some unfortunate incidents (such as lack of effective parachute deployment) that have influenced my thinking -- i.e.,
length of a suitable track to run on.  Bonneville is too short to offer such a margin of safety, in my opinion. 

[MAYOMAN]

I agree that STOPPING safely is more important than going fast. Working with Jim Deist, we used a multi-parachute system stopping from nearly 700mph. A small high speed parachute was deployed first, then a larger low speed parachute was deployed at 300mph, finally wheel brakes of course. We had 2 complete redundant parachute systems, just in case of a failure. Following our 13th run, the first with LNG, and the first over 500mph, exhaust flame behind the car damaged the parachute system and with no parachutes Gary drove off the end of the salt at mile 13 into the mud which stopped The Blue Flame. 13th run stopped past mile 13 - BEWITCHED. Other than a car wash all was okay. We then installed a heat shield over the parachutes containers and had no further episodes. That mud surface was like a safety net, thank God.

[tallguy]

I agree that STOPPING safely is more important than going fast. Working with Jim Deist, we used a multi-parachute system stopping from nearly 700mph. A small high speed parachute was deployed first, then a larger low speed parachute was deployed at 300mph, finally wheel brakes of course. We had 2 complete redundant parachute systems, just in case of a failure. Following our 13th run, the first with LNG, and the first over 500mph, exhaust flame behind the car damaged the parachute system and with no parachutes Gary drove off the end of the salt at mile 13 into the mud which stopped The Blue Flame. 13th run stopped past mile 13 - BEWITCHED. Other than a car wash all was okay. We then installed a heat shield over the parachutes containers and had no further episodes. That mud surface was like a safety net, thank God.

Based on what I read, during Jessi Combs' final/fatal high-speed run, no parachute was deployed.  She could have used a
long mud surface to help slow down more safely . . . in my opinion.

[MAYOMAN]

A longer course is always a good thing. But the reports from ABC News and others claim a vehicle failure caused the crash.
Jessica Combs died on August 27, 2019, after crashing a jet-powered car while setting a land speed record as part of the North American Eagle Project on a dry lake bed in the Alvord Desert, Oregon. The crash was caused by a failure of a front wheel, likely caused by hitting an object in the desert, which caused the front wheel assembly to collapse at a speed nearing 523 mph (842 km/h). The official cause of death was determined to be blunt-force trauma to the head occurring prior to the fire that engulfed the race vehicle after the crash.
Again, not using pneumatic tires, the NAE used solid metal wheels which dig a trench in the surface for steering control. Apparently, an unseen solid object triggered the wheel collapse. As I said, the Goodyear pneumatic tires on our wheels were tested at 850mph in 1970. 53 years later, I am certain pneumatic tires could do the job safely.

[racefanwfo]

I had heard that she was doing a test run when the crash happened. I also heard that the NAE never officially ran for the record. Don't want to hear any bullshit about a woman's speed record because there is no such thing. She only went faster then kitty o'neal. Not a record.