Are records set at Speedweek, WOS and Finals world records

[stay`tee]

What muddies the waters are these tarmac events originaly refered to as "Sprints", thay have now tagged the term "Landspeed",,

In Britain, where we only have beaches and a few long airfields, World land speed records have been achieved under FIM and FIA governance for many decades on both surfaces. The flying start kilometre and flying start mile distances being timed, along with other shorter national timed distances. 

The name of Elvington Airfield appears against many records up to this day. Once there were outright world speed records too, but that changed when Daytona beach and then Bonneville could be reached in the late nineteen twenties. (If you had money to ship cars and other vehicles that far).

In May 2023 there will be World two run average (2RAT) speed records established in Britain at an event organised by UK & International Timing Adjudication, with participants from numerous countries.

By the way to many of us a 'sprint' is the name for a standing start straightline or twisty course, timed from start to finish. The course may be up to 1 mile in length. The competitors time allows positions in class to be determined. [There is no calculation of speed].         

 

Agree, but please take my comment in its "full" context, where I specifically refer to a ""one way pass thru a "short" speed trap""

[kustombrad]

This is one of those conversations that I think EVERYONE who runs at Bonneville truly questions. If you're talking about "overall" speed records, runways and dirt aren't going to cut it! There's only a few places where it can be done and the US has one of them! The SCTA has good "clocks" so to me if it's a record there, it's definitely a WORLD record! The FIA guys pat themselves on the back thinking they are it, even if FIA records aren't normally close to SCTA records. Team Honda came over here a few years ago to go after one of Rick's streamliner records and ran 261 on a 269 mph SCTA record. Being they ran an FIA sanctioned event, it's considered a "world record" even if it missed the mark by 8 mph! No offense to the French, but I see no reason to give them a pile of money to be SECOND fastest in the world...

[TrickyDicky]

Would you feel the same way if it was the other way round?  Suppose someone in another country (say Australia, to identify one realistic possibility), also with good clocks, recorded 270 mph.  Would that be "definitely a WORLD record"?

And not sure why you think you might (not) be offending the French.  The FIA is an international organisation that includes USA membership (ACCUS).  Last time I looked the President of the Land Speed Records Commission was an American.  He probably won't take offense.

[kustombrad]

Good morning! My little French snarkiness was based on the fact that the FIA was put together by them (nothing says fast like Peugeot or Citroen!) so it's their play area. Fastest IS fastest regardless of the organization who claims hold on it. If 270 is the fastest in the world, then why shouldn't it be considered "fastest on the planet?" I'm not building my car to go after the fastest "record" for just the SCTA, I want it to be the fastest in it's class on the planet, period! Anyone who's a racer should have that exact same goal no matter your geological location, you should know who the person to beat is and go after their record accordingly...

[Stainless1]

LandSpeed Racing has evolved... and I'm sure will continue to do so... When I first started Bonneville seemed to have unlimited salt... when it rained you might take a day delay.  The salt would just absorb the water toward the mud and dry on top.  At SpeedWeek we would have 9-11 miles of track.  You qualified and the next day you ran down gathered off the end of the course and after everyone ran, you ran back.  Record runs could run till noon or after.  Then the course started getting shorter... and running toward the highway became dangerous... then Nolan died, and things had to change.  There weren't 150 entries any more, there were 300... and now 500+...
So sure, the FIA and FIM have their set of records, and they can be set anywhere in the world on any available surface.  The SCTA and USFRA have another set of records... they can only be set at Bonneville... and folks from all over the world come to challenge those records.  The DLRA has another set of records.... and so on and so on all the was down to 1/8 mile drag racing.
Most of the LSR organizations have similar classes and rules... the fastest time over  measured miles.  So if the shoe is on the other foot... the fastest is still the fastest.  There are cars and bikes that hold records with multiple organizations... they don't say my FIM/FIA record is this, my SCTA record is that, my DLRA record is the other... they  quote their fastest record as their record speed.
AGAIN: Fastest is Fastest... the fastest record is the world record

[TrickyDicky]

....
AGAIN: Fastest is Fastest... the fastest record is the world record

I agree in principle.

But, ... you go to Speed Week and set an SCTA record.  How do you know it is the fastest in the world at that point?  Which other lists of records do you check?  Who can assure you that nobody else has ever gone faster somewhere else?  How do you compare the class your vehicle ran in with other classes recognised by other sanctioning bodies?

 

[stay`tee]

At the heart of this discussion is the fact that SCTA claim "all" their records as "World Records" 

[kustombrad]

In the case that's being talked about now, where else would you check? Seriously, where is anyone going faster than at Bonneville? Anyone with a computer and a little willpower can find out who's fastest in the class they're running. I did my homework a long time ago to see who I was going after and he lives 50 miles from me. Nobody else on earth has gone as fast as he has (in the class), not even close. I'm not trying to start anything here, I'm just saying from my first comment is that the FIA is highly overrated when used as a pinnacle for overall speed records. When a huge factory effort with two cars, a portable Dyno, big trucks/trailers and 30 people helping out still couldn't give a low buck guy with an open trailer and friends a run for his money, their passes should NOT constitute a "World Record!" Just my two cents...

[Milwaukee Midget]

At the heart of this discussion is the fact that SCTA claim "all" their records as "World Records" 

Actually, that's rather clever - it leaves proving the SCTA wrong somebody else's headache.

You can show the person questioning your record the timing slips, the certificate and/or trophy, point to the rules you competed by in the book, and then charge them with the task of going out and digging up proof of a faster vehicle running under the same parameters that disprove the SCTA claim.

At 84 years along, and as the oldest continuous operating racing organization in the United States, the SCTA doesn't have to prove itself to the rest of the world as an authority on speed trials.

[Stainless1]

I agree in principle.

But, ... you go to Speed Week and set an SCTA record.  How do you know it is the fastest in the world at that point?  Which other lists of records do you check?  Who can assure you that nobody else has ever gone faster somewhere else?  How do you compare the class your vehicle ran in with other classes recognised by other sanctioning bodies?

 

OK, for me it's easy... there is no FIA lakester class... although one has an FIA record... and got 2 guys in the 200 MPH club.... but it was 18MPH slower than my BNI (not SCTA) record.  SCTA records are set at El Mirage... 1.3 miles to a trap speed... Streamliners also easy.... the classes are the same... almost...
But people that actually race LSR know who has the fastest record in their class...

Ronnie, if your record is faster than the BNI record for your bike class, then you have the world record.  I don't think all the BNI records are the fastest, but I'd guess that it's over 80%.  I know a lot a guys with FIM records... that are not world records... because someone has a faster record... it's all semantics...

Brad, The Japanese 3/4 liter liner was a work of art... 660cc 3 cylinder if I remember.... they ran at SpeedWeek to sort the  car for the later FIA/FIM meet... ran in the 220's I think.  They knew the speed to beat was 269... that was their ultimate goal... yes they set the FIA record, but the guy that spoke English said yes they set a record, but failed to set the fastest one.  The car was a success, they achieved their corporate goal, set the FIA record...  but they weren't happy, they never had a mile within 5 MPH as fast as Rick's 2 way average.
Fastest is the Fastest 

[kustombrad]

I'm glad there's some others that think about this stuff the same way I do. Honestly, I didn't realize there were so many "world's" out there battling it out for total speed domination. I guess I'll follow the "FASTEST of the fast" and stay in my world...

[tortoise]

OK, for me it's easy... there is no FIA lakester class... although one has an FIA record... and got 2 guys in the 200 MPH club.... but it was 18MPH slower than my BNI (not SCTA) record.  SCTA records are set at El Mirage... 1.3 miles to a trap speed... Streamliners also easy.... the classes are the same... almost...

Actually, there is neither an FIA lakester or streamliner class. What the SCTA calls lakesters and streamliners the FIA calls "automobiles"  I like that.

[Stan Back]

Does anyone else run world records for the Compressed Air Roadsters?  They're even beat in their own association.

What about the Green Seat motorcycles?  Want a "World Record"?  Hundreds available as "Open" in SCTA.

[TrickyDicky]

Does anyone else run world records for the Compressed Air Roadsters?  They're even beat in their own association.

What about the Green Seat motorcycles?  Want a "World Record"?  Hundreds available as "Open" in SCTA.

Thank you Stan!  I was hoping you would bring your common sense views to this discussion.

[TrickyDicky]

At the heart of this discussion is the fact that SCTA claim "all" their records as "World Records" 

Is that correct?  I presume since nobody has objected it must be.

So Rick's 266 mph BFS record is a "World Record" even though it is slower than his 269 BGS record?  If the Honda had set a 267 mph FIA record would the SCTA have considered that to be a "World Record"?