the electronic age and the SCTA

[Glen]

Not entirely true on 2 or 3 people. Jim Miller has spent about the last two years interviewing and gathering information, pictures etc. This is all being compiled for and on the American hotrod foundation. You might want to look it up.

[pookie]

Hey bbb, what in the hell is wrong with you? You got a good idea, Warner likes your idea, he needs help and just because a couple of clowns give you a little static, you are ready to quit??   Hey Boy you need to get some starch in your shorts!!!  You got a good idea period. So , grab it by the horns and go with it. Give Warner a hand , and  realize this,  there a lot of guys reading these posting and never ever make a comment, but I'll bet there are quite a few in your corner rooting for you. So the question is are you committed to your idea or are you going to let a few butt heads  run you  off. Personally I hope you are man enough to follow thru.

[bbb]

thanks, I will.
many bikes included in the american hot rod foundation?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Okay, Dan, I'll step up and see if I can be of some help with the rulebook (no matter in what format it's produced).

I'm a pretty good speller (better than any spellcheck program, although that's not saying a whole hell of a lot).  I've helped my daughter work her way through bachelor's, master's and PhD-level courses toward her English-teaching degrees.  I'm even pretty good on punctuation.

I can proofread for syntax and stuff like that (not necessarily content, so you'd better get that part correct).  

I've done quite a bit of proofreading for others -- including some published stuff.  If you'd be interested in having someone that's way up north help out on the rulebook -- or anything the SCTA (or even BNI) publishes -- let me know.  You could email stuff to me -- I presume that things are sent electronically to the printer these days, so sending it to Marquette and back first shouldn't be too difficult.

Let me know. . .

PS  Here's an example: If you never, ever use an apostrophe -- you'll be wrong only a few times and right most of the time.  Most people use them WAY TOO MUCH.  If you're tempted to use one -- don't, and nineteen times out of twenty you'll be correct for not having used it.  This is a generalization, but it's pretty damn accurate.

[Elmo Rodge]

PS Here's an example: If you never, ever use an apostrophe -- you'll be wrong only a few times and right most of the time. Most people use them WAY TOO MUCH. If you're tempted to use one -- don't, and nineteen times out of twenty you'll be correct for not having used it. This is a generalization, but it's pretty damn accurate.

So in that paragraph admonishing us not to use apostrophes, you used them 6 times. Thanx for clearing that up, Jon.        
I like the CD idea. I would have said something earlier but I are (See that Jon. No apostrophe) trying to build a race car and am rather busy. Wayno

[Stan Back]

Slim --

I've sent you two PMs, but they don't seem to take.  How can I contact you?

Stan

[Sumner]

Hi Dan, I've been not going to post this, but I guess I will since I'll be going out of town in the morning and will be a "moving target" .

You look to be severely overworked, so I hate to mention this, and it is just a suggestion for some time in the future.  

The biggest problem I have is finding what I need to do to satisfy the rules in the rule book.  I never seem to know if what I'm looking for is in Section 2 (Car Competition Requirements), Section 3 (Technical Specifications and Requirements) or Section 4 Definitions.

I know there must be reason items are placed in the sections they are, but I can't seem to figure it out .  For instance:

Section 2 tells you that (2.E) you can't run a C-clip type axle and what you need to do and also (2.G) "all nonferrous wheels on which lug nuts would come in .....shall have a 1/4" thick steel retaining....  I would look for something like that in Section 3.

In Section 4.B Air Intakes.  Besides giving you the definition you are told where an air intake can originate and the size it can be.  Again I would look in Section 3.

In Section 4.X Roof Rails.  Besides giving you the definition of a "roof rail" you are told it's size and where to put it.  Again I would look in Section 3.

The same about Spoilers in Section 4.CC.6.  A spoiler is defined, but also this is where you get the dimensions as to what size it can be.

I wonder if sections 2, 3, and 4 could be combined so that the items are alphabetical and the definition and requirements were all in just one place.  I sense as things came up over the years they were stuck in one section or another ending up where we are now.

I realize that I might be the only one who is having a problem here and it is not a large problem in my life   , I can think about larger ones, but we don't need to go into them here .

You did ask for comments, so this is my story and I'm sticking to it,

Sum

[Bob Drury]

If Slim gets his hands on the rulebook, we will all be racing by next winter in sunny Minnesota, and with no damn apostrophes either...........

[jimmy six]

Pookie----What's up with that. We are not giving anyone any trouble. The collections are in private hands. They collected them, paid for them, store them, etc. Glen and I continuously share the information with everyone who asks. Glen, Jim M., and I can be funny but I don't ever remember being a clown....

The ones who thought they were going to get something out of it are never asked.

You have no idea how much we have shared. I look up stuff continuously and mail all of it off.......FREE...Many families have thanked many many times.

When SCTA memorabia comes on e-bay with claims which are made up we let bidders know without asking. Yeah I know if it was all ouy there somewhere all could look it up...and then the fake crap would come out in groves cause the sellers would be using it.

Say what you want, but for now I believe it will stay the way it is........

[hotrod]

Well I guess I might as well stick my head in here too!

I worked as a professional planner for a while at the State of Colorado Office of Emergency Management and have a fair bit of experience trying to cross reference and make sense of various complex documents.

(I successfully wrote a few of them as well)

I also self published a small lay flat spiral bound booklet for storm chasers so I have a bit of experience with that as well.

The biggest problem I have is finding what I need to do to satisfy the rules in the rule book. I never seem to know if what I'm looking for is in Section 2 (Car Competition Requirements), Section 3 (Technical Specifications and Requirements) or Section 4 Definitions.

I also found that to be an issue and started to do a summary of the rules to help me make sense of them.

The Rule book as currently structured, is written in a conversational style that makes some entries hard to segment down into specific points required for compliance.


For example the section on wheels in the General Regulations covers almost an entire page spanning from the bottom of pg 17 to nearly the bottom of page 18.


This is the same basic info condensed into a bullet item list.
One simple declarative statement for each rule item.

=====================

Wheels pg 17-18  ( 2.G )

All non-ferrous wheels on which lug nuts come in contact with the wheel must have 1/4" thick steel retaining plated or
large OD heavy gauge individual washers under all lug nuts.

Does not apply to spindle mounted non-ferrous wheels

Acorn style lug nuts prohibited


ALL CLASSES OVER 200 MPH   

Wheels used must be manufactured for racing or reinforced as below.
Must have 1" hex lug nuts.

ALL CLASSES UNDER 200 MPH

Hex must be larger than the largest dia of the taper of the mounting hole.
Lugs must torque totally against the tapered hole of the wheel
Minimum 5/8 " of the lug must engage the lug nut.

Tires > 29 inch dia, or 17 inch wheels.
Wheels must be manufactured for racing or reinforced as below.
Minimum of 5 studs
minimum dia of 1/2" and 1" hex lug nuts.

Reinforcement shall be done by welding the entire area of attachment between the rim and the center section on either the inside or outside of the wheel.

======================


I find this sort of list much easier to negotiate and "check off" if an item applies to my car/class than to read through a couple hundred words of text.

It would be nice in my opinion, to structure the rule book in the bullet list style with an "intent or purpose" section at the end that briefly describes why certain rules are in place or to help the tech inspectors interpret specific items to comply with the rules committee's intent.

This sort of annotation should be in an appendix so the central core of the rules is very concise.

With this style of rule, a person could simply hi-light, underline or check each bullet line item that applies to his construction.


Just my 2c --- and Dan I would be willing to help in any project you might have in mind with in the limits of my free time.

Larry

[Dynoroom]

That was very well done Larry. At one time not that long ago the rule book was very well structured. As the rules changed so did the layout of the rule book. It is a very complicated today. Your ideas are sound and could go a long ways toward making it much easier to traverse.
I'm sure Dan would love some help.

[AJR192]

I feel the historical aspect of this sport is as equally exciting as what happens today. I really appreciate the trouble and expense that people have gone to so the history is not lost. I wish that the stuff would be more accessible for public viewing, but I also understand how easily it can be damaged or lost or stolen.  Would be neat to spend a few days or weeks checking it out though.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Okay, Elmo, so I used six apostrophes -- right after admonishing folks not to use them at all.  But -- were any of the six incorrectly used?  If so I will apologise and go away.  If not, I think my point is proven -- that I know how to use punctuation.

And I could have used two of them there marks in the above sentence but chose not to do so.  One would have been acceptable, the other a mistake.  I know where those locations are and will share them if you are interested.

The point of my offer is not to say that the rulebook is prepared by people that do not know any better - rather, that reducing the number of mistakes as much as is possible will allow the rules to be read and understood more easily.  Wrong spelling, punctuation, syntax, and grammar (to name a few) are invitations to incorrect assumptions about rules, and therefore to disagreements and ire between the rules makers - and the rules interpreters (read: racers).  Once upon a time I won a case in court (where I was the defendant) by pointing out an ambiguity in the law that was only ambiguous because of a poor choice of words by the writer of that law.  I showed the judge -- he considered -- and then agreed that the way the law was written allowed me to be correct, even though what I said did not agree with the "intent" of the law -- just the way it was stated.  Are you ready to argue your interpretation of a rule while you are in impound?  Would you not prefer to have it clear before the conflict can arise?

The offer is still open, Dan.

[dwarner]

To reply to the suggestions to reformat the rulebook. Jim Miller and I have been working on a change that does put the book into a different format, much like the NHRA book.

It is a long, tedious project that must be fit into our schedules.

DW

[Elmo Rodge]

Jon, that was a good natured funnin' from a friend. You know that. Your command of the language is obvious. See you at Speed Week. Wayno