Author Topic: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville  (Read 45483 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5890
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2017, 11:19:31 AM »
I don't think that a different engine should "legalize" a competitor in the Category one competes in.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline tauruck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5127
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2017, 12:00:25 PM »
I don't know about the "rules" but that's some clever work there.
I'm interested in how it runs. You guys can fight over the legality etc. :wink:

Offline krusty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2017, 01:32:49 PM »
I don't think that a different engine should "legalize" a competitor in the Category one competes in.

I don't think so either, Stan. I can't legalize anything in any category, and I only worry about those trying to beat our numbers in the classes that we run. I shared my opinion in the hope that it might help Mike and Randy reevaluate their approach before running the record cert gauntlet.

My opinion is worth exactly what people say opinions are like, as is yours.

vic

Offline Eddieschopshop

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2017, 12:25:51 AM »
There is a problem when people don't say anything.  Its unfair to the entire class regardless of who's record it is.  It makes it difficult moving forward to call others on it and harder still to draw the line in the sand.  I hate how many roadsters I see making their tunnel go up into what should be the original lower panel of the rear body.  Another thing that is done on the car in this thread.  Where in the rules does it say "original body except this pc right here"  A lot of cars have got away with modifying this lower panel which to me is a clear violation,  but how do you start calling people on it now?  Too many have got away with it too long.  If you took the tailight panel off a coupe and made the diffuser come up to the spoiler people would protest right?

I was in line in front of a comp coupe ( and i was helping run a comp coupe last year)  This car was so clearly illegal it floored me.  I talked to the owner who admitted that his last car was denied several times for being illegal.  I asked him why he would go through the effort to build a new car that was still clearly illegal.  He took exception to this comment.  So it begs the question....  when did it become rude to question someone instead of it being rude for them to cheat?  I use the word cheat with him because it was clearly an intentional thing after speaking with him.  Of course he had a long speech prepared because he knew in his own mind he had crossed the line.  

The thing I love about this sport is the ability to beat the other guy with ingenuity and trying something new.  I really like a guy who is smart enough to get an advantage as long as it is within the rule.  Now there are some gray areas out there that can definitely be exploited to which I say go for it.  But there are some areas that will get you in trouble also. I think everyone who saw my RMR questioned its legality at first glance. I heard lots of hushed discussions but nobody said anything to me directly.  I won several bets about being able to get in and out as required.  To my knowledge my car was completely legal.  I like the class because it is about as extreme as you can get with a stock bodied class.  But  I also tire of the lakester comments...    

The guy with the coupe had taken two different years of bodies and combined them.  Two different fiberglass drag racing repops that were no where near the originals to begin with.  So I asked how he was going to provide documentation of the original body. He had made a body that I don't think was ever available in that configuration.  In this case he had gone so far off the reservation it was really maddening.  When you get down to it,  all we get at the end of the day is bragging rights.  I would rather have a record I could be proud of and not be proud that I got away with something.  

« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 12:29:35 AM by Eddieschopshop »

Offline thundersalt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
    • www.americanrvservicecenter.com
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2017, 10:04:32 AM »
" when did it become rude to question someone instead of it being rude for them to cheat?" .......Yes, and deciding to protest a fellow competitor is not an easy desision. Some of you know I did this years ago to a "famous" competitor, got villified on his website forum, and was the all around A$$hole and bad guy for doing nothing wrong. For this reason I will probably never protest again.

PS. I won the protest
916 REMR
2017 AA/FRMR Bonneville Record holder 234.663
2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder 223.108
2020 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 252.438
2021 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 262.685
El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline interested bystander

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 997
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2017, 11:59:16 AM »
Rules are for the interpretation of wise men.
5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline NathanStewart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1241
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2017, 04:39:12 PM »
No such thing as a "pre-approval".  Ask the Salt Cat guys about being "pre-approved" and then losing all their records after someone else realized what they were running was illegal.  Any car can be protested no matter how much the committee chair or someone else has lead you to believe you're legal.  As much as you want to believe, the committee chairs aren't the final word.  I have a strong feeling that other members of the roadster committee won't be happy with your "chute fairings".  All it will take is someone to protest the car and then this will go through the entire roadster committee for review to which they'll make a recommendation to the board and the board will make a final decision.  You have a couple guys here already squawking and they're only a small portion of the entire RMR group - what do you think will happen when the car actually shows up for competition?  There was a Corvette (I think) that ran a few years ago that had square tube exhaust with 8 tubes that ran all the way to the back of the car and all the tubes were welded together so the exhaust seconded as a belly pan.  Guess what?  Records pulled at board meeting after Speed Week.  It can happen.

Saying that an aero feature is for safety is the biggest lie any racer ever told plain and simple.  You spent all that time and money going to the wind tunnel in the interest of safety?  GET REAL!!  Your only interest (along with everyone else's) is to go faster!  That's the same lie the guys pushing to allow wings on Comp Coupe's and Mod Roadster said - oh it's in the interest of safety.  Ha more like in the interest of going faster.  Maybe your car's too light and you can't get that power down and having 200 lbs of lift from the body isn't helping.  Now that you've got more power, you need the aero to help get it to the ground so you can go FASTER.  Your car is lakester long - was it really on the verge of spinning?  There are cars with a lot more power and a lot less wheelbase that aren't spinning and going a lot faster.  Hard to swallow that excuse.

You've gone so far to implement this fairing/spoiler that you're even running an extra parachute that isn't even required for the speeds you run just so you can fair it in to complete your spoiler.  Let me guess - more safety? 

For the record, I personally think it's an absolute abomination what some RMR guys have been allowed to get away with.  IMO RMR's are the scurge of the roadster class.  I actually personally don't care about RMR's.  They can all go race each other in their pseudo-laksters with roadster quarters panels and I'll stick with real roadsters.  Now don't get me wrong - some RMR's are more legit than others but there's simply too many that are so far out to lunch that it's not even worth caring about any more.

But it's nice to see a passionate and active conversation on the forum again.   :-D
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline thundersalt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
    • www.americanrvservicecenter.com
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2017, 05:14:02 PM »
Tell us how you really feel Nathan......LOL.......As I said earlier I won't be the one to protest but thinking about submitting a rule change to make the "spirit of the rule" the rule


Hey Nathan, what side of the RMR fence do you put me on :-D
916 REMR
2017 AA/FRMR Bonneville Record holder 234.663
2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder 223.108
2020 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 252.438
2021 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 262.685
El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline SPARKY

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6912
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2017, 09:04:37 PM »
Watch it---the fence may be topped with Containa Wire  :-D
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Eddieschopshop

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2017, 10:01:32 PM »
ahh the "traditional roadster" snobbery raises its head!!  I know I am in your abomination group my car was pretty extreme.  (Now I am not offended by this so hopefully you will not be offended by my reply all in fun and the spirit of conversation). I still don't really understand this attitude towards the rmrs.  Modified and rear modified have the same rules.  The rear is going to look different because of the driver position.  If I were to build one of each they would look nearly identical except for the drivers head so.... how do you explain that?  I never got to run my roadster to its potential since it got rained out two years in a row then I sold it,  kinda dissapointed in that.  I had big hopes for it on the salt.  I went 290 its first year at the 3.5 before losing a lifter.  Even though the record in the book says 212 that was at the 2 and on a licensing run to qualify.  

You guys that are so down on the class need to think about it from a different perspective.  As  a newbie I don't have a history or extensive experience with running different classes.  I didn't know any of the politics behind any of it.   So as a newbie I came in,  looked for a class that would be a good fit,  and built a car.  Now here I was proud for building a car that I thought was really cutting edge as slippery as could make it within the rules and then I get bashed for having a car that isn't roadstery enough?  The entire class is an odd duck so??  My first trip to bville I saw a rmr and thought it was the ugliest thing and who would build for that class?  Well guess what it was a great starter class and a good fit for my transaxle/engine combo I had.   I can tell you first hand it sucks to want to get into LSR and then feel like a stepchild because of the car you show up with.  Would I have more street cred if I had made myself sticking up an extra two feet and made an aero ugly car?

As a side note I can tell you that no matter what you do a roadster can still spin if you get to aggressive with your weight bias and right foot.  But thats another story.  

Now you have to bash my comp coupe wing also.... Man I am really getting a thrashing.  The rules let me do it and I saw an advantage in doing it for that particular car.  I didn't petition for the rule change.  When I was ready to build a coupe it was allowed.  Is there anything wrong with that?  

And I think you would agree Nathan,  sending in pictures and at least getting some thumbs up on the actual car before hand can't hurt.  It may not be the end all of approvals but at least its something.  
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 10:05:56 PM by Eddieschopshop »

Offline Ron Gibson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 770
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2017, 04:32:22 AM »
Many years ago a very well known, deceased racer, teamed with a friend of mine and set a record. The record was taken away because they had three chute packs on the deck lid and it was considered an aerodynamic advantage.

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline BigIron

  • New folks
  • Posts: 15
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2017, 10:16:22 AM »
I just do not understand all the hype about records and protests.  The only "record" that really matters is: Was this run of my car faster than the last run of my car?

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5890
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »
There's a class for that -- it's called Time Only.

Most humans enjoy a little recognition for their efforts.  Having your name in the Rule Book for a year can be satisfying.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline tauruck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5127
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2017, 10:58:16 AM »
How satisfying?. I can only dream. :-P

Offline 7800ebs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
    • http://quickturnparts.com/index.html
Re: Wind Tunnel Testing for Bonneville
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2017, 11:25:46 AM »
And this is why I have a Streamliner.....    :cheers: