Author Topic: El Mirage  (Read 59133 times)

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Offline joea

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El Mirage
« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2006, 07:07:26 PM »
ps Glen.............SCTA currently and for a number of years
has advocated and certified running goodyear frontrunners
as drive wheels on the back of motorcycles..........

and thankfully the SCTA has made allowances for tires that
are shown to handle the duties to the utilized...........

Joe :)

Offline Glen

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el mirage
« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2006, 07:19:58 PM »
I don't think these 5" ex drag race front tires are allowed in the higher speed cars. They blew several on the salt last year and the year before. I know Jack Costello runs them on his little liner but he ain't going over 250 mph.
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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El Mirage
« Reply #92 on: October 31, 2006, 07:32:05 PM »
You can rationalize this any way you want, but in the end it just isn't feasable to come up with a method that will allow the sanctioning body to verify that the second engine did what you wish it would do.

For 1.3 miles produce measureable power. Are you going to require a load cell with data collection on board? WAAAAY beyond what our sport, as volunteers, can possibly monitor.

In Rick's case it isn't in the "spirit" but doesn't violate any current rules. Say what you want about the lack of 2 stroke oil, cold engines, but the rules don't say zip, nada, nothing except 2A: "Only Streamliners and Unlimited Diesel Trucks may use more than one engine at the same time." 5A: "Inovation is unlimited"

If the engine was off at tech inspection, it shouldn't have passed tech inspection. But it did. Not from a class rules violation, but safety.

It did pass class vehicle inspection at the end of the run because no matter what you THINK the RULES don't require a live motor.
If the engine had been duct taped on like the picture I posted on page 2 of this thread it wouldn't have passed safety. If it was bolted on with no drive train you could argue is isn't a second engine. But Rick bolted it on, hooked up a drive train and did all the things that made it look like it COULD run.

So skip the woulda, coulda, shoulda, and show me rules that would positively, without a doubt, absolutely guarantee that both engines produce measureable power. And would keep me from kicking it into neutral after you checked it. And wouldn't put an excessive burden on the poor overworked tech guys.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline joea

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El Mirage
« Reply #93 on: October 31, 2006, 07:41:00 PM »
I hear ya glen.......part of this is beyond the absolute speed...
but also the load.....Rick loaded the tire in a manner that resulted in
very little load.......and very high speed.....and the tire worked well
in that application........

as far as it being legal.......we would have to defer such
technical issues to the tech inspectors that deemed it
ok to run......then certified it as a record.......

Offline Tom Bryant

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El Mirage
« Reply #94 on: October 31, 2006, 07:42:42 PM »
Keith,

This could be done in jest and it would be funny, but this is serious competition we are discussing. My point was that the engine has to be capable of  propelling the car and under the control of the driver. Whether it ran or not is not the issue. If it was not running, then it had to be turning over because it was hooked to the drive-train. Just carry extra cubic inches in the car does not make sense to me. What is to keep someone with a pickup from throwing a Big Block Chevy in the bed and going up a few classes. From the discussion so far, I cannot tell if anyone knows whether it was capable of propelling the car or not.
I don't understand..."It won't work!"
 
 Tom, Redding CA - #216 D/CC
 - LSR since 1955 - www.bryantauto.com

Offline JackD

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SAD
« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2006, 07:44:50 PM »
The engine was never hooked up to a drive train as evidenced by the
 neutral position of the transmission and no way to connect it.
The tire is not a Goodyear Frontrunner that includes drive or braking
loads that would never survive use as a rear at those speeds.
If you realized that it left the line in neutral, when and how did it ever get connected ?
It is like a slight of hand trick that won't be repeated because everybody
 knows it will be watched closer next time.

"The wonder of flight is soon lost when the Seagull leaves his mark on you."
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline hitz

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El Mirage
« Reply #96 on: October 31, 2006, 08:20:06 PM »
I think Rick had his tonque in his cheek!

Harv

Offline KeithTurk

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El Mirage
« Reply #97 on: October 31, 2006, 08:27:52 PM »
Tom, I just think the whole thing is a blast...  We need to thank Rick for the entertainment....

Obviously i don't have a dog in the fight...  It's just about enjoying the banter...

K
Keith Turk
 D Gas Modified Sports
 246.555 mph

Offline JackD

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We can only hope.
« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2006, 08:33:40 PM »
Quote from: hitz
I think Rick had his tonque in his cheek!

Harv


Some would say it was more of a "Tongue in the ear type of deal." LOL
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

JohnR

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Re: SAD
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2006, 10:46:29 PM »
Quote from: JackD
The engine was never hooked up to a drive train as evidenced by the  neutral position of the transmission and no way to connect it.


Jack,

I may be mistaken but I am almost positive that I heard Dan Warner state to the board when they were hearing the protest that he was waiting for the vehicle at the far end and that he was the first one to the vehicle after the run. He stated that he checked the extra engine and it was at least as cold as the ambient air, if not colder and it was in gear.

I rememberd it because it suprised me.

Regards,

John

Offline JackD

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OIL o KY JELLY ?
« Reply #100 on: October 31, 2006, 11:00:12 PM »
The crank would have been in pieces on the ground without the suitable
oil mix that it did not have.
The meeting info only states the crankshaft did not turn as the vehicle left the line.
So the question remains , When did it go into gear and how ?
I will go back and read Dan's report again.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Harold Bettes

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with the precedent already set
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2006, 12:09:35 AM »
OK Then,

If a guy wants to use an innovative way to launch the chute out with a JATO charge bottle just as he enters the first timing trap and it burns a bit.....and the first chute was not connected so that he has to go to a back up. The JATO bottle is now depleted but provided just a "bit" of additional thrust.

Is that legit? Well OK then.

Man I have just got to get one of those flexible rule books!

Regards to All,
HB2
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another.

JohnR

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Re: OIL o KY JELLY ?
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2006, 12:33:43 AM »
Quote from: JackD
The meeting info only states the crankshaft did not turn as the vehicle left the line.


What meeting info?

At the meeting I heard Jim Lattin state that he could see the flywheel and when the vehicle left the line he could clearly see that it was not turning. Someone else then stated that the flywheel was not visible and that the circular object protruding from the body on the drivers right side was in fact the flywheel cover and that since it is a cover, it could not turn and that there was no way to determine if the crankshaft was turning since the only rotating component that is visible was the sprocket which I think everyone will agree, was turning.

But rather than get into a he-said she-said, it should be easy enough to verify if someone has a picture of the right side of the engine-like-appendage. I recall it being a cover, just like every modern motorcross engine has but will wait till someone posts a pic of the right side.

Offline JackD

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TRUST YOUR SENCES
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2006, 01:08:22 AM »
A blind man could tell the crank never turned over if he ever heard a
 2 smoke attempt a start.

John,
You mean you don't have a copy of the meeting documentation to read ?
I do.
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline PorkPie

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El Mirage
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2006, 05:26:58 AM »
You can't blame Rick therefore that his streamliner passed the tech.

In the moment when he got the ok the car was legal.

When the rule book allowed innovation....use your brain.....Rick done it.

And if the engine was only there to give the car some more ballast on the rear wheels.....why not........

At the picture it looks that the "ballast" was properly attached to the rear end of the car, the tape was just there to cover the gap between rear end and add engine to get it streamlined.

When someone thinks that the tape holds the second unit....not by 248 mph.....only the speed approved that this unit was properly fixed to streamliner.

Honestly, since this discussion start, I got a big smile in my face....

Rick, just to get this idea was innovation... :wink: ....you be in the same row as my old friend Jack "Innovator" Costella....you be worth to run his streamliner  :D

What's the next trick :shock:
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)