El Mirage

[Stan Back]

Rich --

Now I'm not trying to be a smart ass (as is my usual nature), but removing the pushrods does not change the displacement (?).  Running a 7-cylinder motor with a piston missing is okay.  And adding the 8th cylinder back on is okay, and could change the class.  But simply disabling a cylinder to change displacement would not fly (I think!).

Stan

[JackD]

With no push rods in the liner , who could ever know ?

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man ?
Da Shaddow do."

[desotoman]

The rulebook deserves rereading before you cite gasoline as being
forbidden in the Fuel class.

Yes and no on gas being allowed in the fuel class. "In fuel classes any approved liquid fuel may be used. Examples of approved fuels are: alcohol, hydrogen, nitro methane blends, nitrous oxide, and unapproved gasoline."

"the average Dielectric Constant for the hydrocarbons which compromise gasoline is 2.025. This is defined as a reading of zero (0) with the SCTA fuel Check Meter. The maximum acceptable meter reading is +/- 5, with zero (0) as the reference reading. A gasoline that has a greater reading than 2.3 will cause the meter reading to be outside this range."

So how I read the rules is: gas that is legal for the gas class, cannot be run in the fuel class, but gas that is not legal for the gas class can be run in the fuel class. So if someone jumps from a gas class to a fuel class and runs the exact same gas in the motor, I think that would be a violation of the rules, since they are running an approved gas.

Tom G.

[KeithTurk]

Nope Tom... they only check your fuel in the gas class, it's a non-issue in the fuel class.  

K

[JackD]

An unapproved gas has not been through the approved SCTA procedure.
That was too easy.
 

[joea]

so is that cheating, if ya knowingly run an approved
gas class gas in fuel class........cuz its not checked.....

Joe

[desotoman]

Thanks Keith for the response. If they don't check why would they even have "unapproved gas" in the wording? Why not just say gas is approved? Now I am confused.
Tom G.

[JackD]

Approved gas as defined in the SCTA rule book has a specific procedure
associated with it and outside that rule is the other approved fuels.

"Mock not the afflicted"

[JohnR]

so is that cheating, if ya knowingly run an approved
gas class gas in fuel class........cuz its not checked.....

Joe

Joe,

It depends on the "spirit of the rule"

[JackD]

so is that cheating, if ya knowingly run an approved
gas class gas in fuel class........cuz its not checked.....

Joe

Joe,

It depends on the "spirit of the rule"

Actually the gas procedures and approval do not depend on the
"DEAD SPIRITS" to figure it out.

[jimmy six]

Not to burst anyones bubble, but when a vehicle comes into imounds to get certified for a record if they are entered in the fuel class it's one more thing I don't need to look at....I don't care what is in the tank.

If the vehicle is running in a gasoline class I will get a sample to check.

[Dean Los Angeles]

If you can set a record with gas in a fuel class more power to you. It would just demonstrate somebody doesn't know how much power you get from Nitromethane.
From Smokemup.com
http://smokemup.com/tech/fuels.php

Gasoline - Gasoline is what most of our cars came setup so it's usually what we stick with. Gasoline is a mixture of hydrocarbons. The petroleum distillate fraction termed "gasoline" contains mostly saturated hydrocarbons usually with a chemical formula of C8H18. The air fuel ratio, A/F Ratio, for complete combustion is 14.7:1, stoichiometric. The A/F ratio for maximum power is approximately 12.5:1 - 12.8:1. This means that our engine at max power, 12.8:1, consumes 12.8 pounds of air for 1 pound of fuel. Gasoline has approximately 18,400 BTU/lb . Using the air flow calculator with the default inputs we get our 355 SBC consumes 567.53 cfm @ 6500rpm which is 42.64 pounds of air and consumes 2.89 pounds of fuel. Therefore if we are using gasoline our engine is producing 53,176 BTU's of energy at 6500 rpm.

Alcohol (Methanol) - Alcohol is usually used in the form of Methyl alcohol or methanol. CH3OH is the chemical formula. Methanol burns at a much richer mixture than gasoline does, between 5.0:1 - 6.0:1. That's 5 lbs of air to one pound of fuel. Methanol has approximately 9,500 BTU/lb. Using our 355, example above, SBC consumes 567.53 cfm @ 6500rpm which is 42.64 pounds of air and now at 6.0:1 ratio for Methanol is 7.11 pounds of fuel. Therefore if we are using Methanol fuel our engine is producing 67,545 BTU's of energy at 6500 rpm.

Nitromethane - is a fuel that is used mostly in specialized drag racing classes, "nitro funny cars" and "top fuel". Nitromethane's chemical formula is CH3NO2. The oxygen in nitromethane's molecular structure means that nitromethane does not need as much atmospheric oxygen to burn, part of the oxygen needed to burn nitromethane is carried in the fuel itself. Typical A/F ratio for nitromethane is 1.7:1 and nitromethane has an energy content of 5,000 BTU/lb. Using our 355, example above, SBC consumes 567.53 cfm @ 6500rpm which is 42.64 pounds of air and now at 1.7:1 ratio for nitromethane is 25.08 pounds of fuel. Therefore if we are using Nitromethane fuel our engine is producing 125,412 BTU's of energy at 6500 rpm.
TABLE 1
Fuel    Engine Air Flow (cfm)    lbs of air (lbs)    A/F Ratio    Pounds of Fuel (lbs)    Energy Content of Fuel (BTU/lb)    Total Thermal Energy (BTU)
Gasoline    567.53    42.64    12.8:1    2.89    18,500    53,176
Methanol    567.53    42.64    6.0:1    7.11    9,500    67,545
Nitromethane    567.53    42.64    1.7:1    25.08    5,000    125,412

Summary - As you can see from table 1 above the clear winner is nitromethane. But that doesn't mean to go out and pour nitromethane in your car and see how it runs, if you do your engine will surely blow up. Nitromethane is very expensive and dangerous to handle. The interesting alternative to gasoline is Methanol. Methanol will make more power, typically around 20% more power than a similar engine running gasoline. Some things to consider in running methanol is your fuel system will have to be completely changed / upgraded. Based on the table above the fuel system will have to flow approximately 2.5 times as much as the gasoline engine.

I guess the old saying is true. "Gasoline is for washing parts, alcohol is for drinking and nitro is for racing."

And that's without going into the benefits of Nitrous Oxide.

[JohnR]

If you can set a record with gas in a fuel class more power to you.

Some would say the same about setting 3.0L records with 2.0L class engines...

[JackD]

Only 6500 RPM ?
It is no wonder the F-1 engines use gas.
If you can't burn the load in the time it has, the rest is a waste.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Speaking of F1 and 6500 rpm, check out this video.
Somehow I don't think the IDLE is 6500. He shifts up through the gears in this video.
http://www.angeltowns2.net/smele/video/f1flames.wmv