History and Dolan

[Bob Beatty]

Jon,
I think we touched a nerve here.  
Let me ramble a little bit to give some background to make a point.
Maybe some of us have been around too long in this sport.  It has changed in ways that, in my mind have cheapened the accomplishments of those that have gone before.  
Two of those changes are the addition of so many classes with no minimums to support the value of the accomplishment of setting a record.  The other change was the elimination of the qualifying run required to even make a record attempt.  This item would have cut the number of records set since that change by a huge percentage.   There were reasons for these changes but that is for discussion separately.  
The accomplishments of those that have gone before have been cheapened in some ways.  They gave us records with real worth to shoot for.  The process required to set a record added worth and significance any record that was set.  Many of the records set today are great accomplishments.  Many more would not have been set if the older standards were in place.  I?ll probably always wonder if any of mine would have been set if that third run the same day in the opposite direction would have been required.
In 1974 you should have seen Chauvin make his return run in B/MR (C/BFMR today).  The headers burned through on the down run (274 I think).  Wide open throttle on 70% will do that if you are just a tiny bit lean.  With no time for proper repairs, Chauvin made his return run.  The body was on fire by the third mile.  He hit the fire bottles but didn?t lift until the blower finally banged and slowed him to a 264 for a 269 record (which still stands).  There are many stories similar to this.  The point is that?s the kind of effort that goes into a record any of us would take pride in breaking.  We want that understood and appreciated.  That?s how hard our friends that have died in this pursuit were going for it.  
Jack Dolan does not need me to speak for him, but I think this is part of what he has tried to preach to those who visit this site.  He has an awareness of the history of our sport and it?s value.  Agree with him or not - like him or not, you would have to aknowledge he has accomplished a lot in our sport.  He has been here a long time and brings experience and spice to this web site.  Regarding the family aspect of land speed racing that I mentioned in an earlier post, Dolan is family.

[joea]

thanks Beatty............its so important to hear the
stories.........the history.............

there are plenty of folks now.........stepping on the salt for 1st time.......

some with off the showroom production bikes...........making passes
at meets with thousands of classes with .......0.000 records.........

even the FIM #### canned all their history.........nearly a century........
and adopted all new classes...........with records of 0.000.........

some of these folks are making passes on bikes prepared for them
by someone else or the factory.........and breaking some open 0.000
records at speeds slower than classes much smaller in other sanctioning
bodies.......and proclaiming in public events.......internet etc how
they "kicked butt" at Bonneville............

its good to hear some of it put into perspective............

I appreciate the efforts of all who venture to the salt to pursue speed........
and respect their efforts according to the achievment.....and efforts ...

[1212FBGS]

Dolan took me to the dirt for the first time, in the middle of the night. When dawn broke, and the 3 of us rolled out of the back of his van.... holly shit it was cool! (not cold) there it was, in all its expance, El Mirage. tech was a breeze, jack just marked my windscreen with shoe polish, no forms, no hastles, after all Jack was the SCTA/BNI/FIM tech director. and after my pass I just drove back to Jacks van. That was cool! The meet was called earlie when Pete Dean crashed. On the way home, Jack stopped at that little resturant (now deserted) and made a phone call (pre cell phones, incedentaly Jack even worked at the phone company) and found out that his friend Pete had died! (kind of emotional and put the danger and reality into the experience) I kinda dabbled in it a couple of times after that until Vesco got me back into it when I made the body for the Turbinator. So I bought jacks streamliner. Now I'm a full blown speed junkie with rule books on my desk, in my tool box, in my truck, and in my bathroom. I live it almost every breathing hour. I even check this silly web site twice a day. I've got 3 streamliners starting on a 4th and have 4 bikes prepped and ready to race. I realized time wise, i will never be able to set all the records for my machinery. My wife even blames this sillyness on Dolan.
Thanks Jack
Kent

[Glen]

Having known Jack many years I have to agree with the history and being part of it. There has been much water under the bridge and along with it many records and changes. I look at the current rule book and see pages of open records. Something approaching 1900 MC classes in total.
Do we need that many, I doubt it as many will never be challanged. I asked many years ago that this be looked into and reduced in size.

Jack has been involved in many aspects of LSR and other racing venues and is a great historian for our sport. We don't see each other very often but the past is there and we do e-mail a lot. My collection is overflowing and I need to buy another filing cabinet to sort things. Most of my stuff is car related but Jack has the two wheel stuff on his side of the house.

One can always go to Jack and get results and information from the past. He has run many meets on his own, he knows the ropes.
Glen

[Sumner]

Dolan took me to the dirt for the first time, in the middle of the night............

For a minute I thought this was a wrestling comment .

............ The meet was called earlie when Pete Dean crashed. On the way home, Jack stopped at that little resturant (now deserted) and made a phone call (pre cell phones, incedentaly Jack even worked at the phone company) and found out that his friend Pete had died! (kind of emotional and put the danger and reality into the experience) .........

I'll bet that was hard on Jack and a reality check for you .

...............I even check this silly web site twice a day.........

Only twice, I don't think you have been bitten hard enough yet .

......... I've got 3 streamliners starting on a 4th and have 4 bikes prepped and ready to race. I realized time wise, i will never be able to set all the records for my machinery. My wife even blames this sillyness on Dolan.
Thanks Jack
Kent

Well maybe you have been bitten pretty hard.  I can't even get one done.  I was hoping to visit with you on the salt, but then we got busy and then went home .  Maybe I can get to El Mirage as a spectator next year and we can visit a little   .

Jon I hope Jack's stay in the dog house isn't permanent.  He is a little rough around the edges at time , but it's kind of hard not to like the guy .  I appreciate the advice he has given me in the past.

c ya,

Sum

[JackD]

I took Kent to his first EM event in 84. While I was only responsible for the bike program I did more than a few car inspections.  The paper work was a little more involved than he might remember, but he was a "PIE EYED" kid.
Pete Dean was my closest neighbor in LSR and we spent a lot o time together. The day he lost his life, Kent will remember who assisted the Medics with his removal from the wreck. Kent carried and handed me tools.
More deaths can be attributed to the sport than the memorial at the salt would indicate and it is the fatality rate and not the total number that has meaning.
As for the Roadster story, you gotta consider that it was a real Modified Roadster that included in the rules a % of track to wheelbase.
It was not the loooong stream liner you see today that makes you wonder where the Roadster part is.
The same thing happened when Sports Racing evolved into Gas Stream liner.
"The Goodest part of the good days is they are behind us. The bad part is we seem to be scattering out what should be progress."

[Flyboy]

[quote/
there are plenty of folks now.........stepping on the salt for 1st time.......

some with off the showroom production bikes...........making passes
at meets with thousands of classes with .......0.000 records.........

even the FIM #### canned all their history.........nearly a century........
and adopted all new classes...........with records of 0.000.........

some of these folks are making passes on bikes prepared for them
by someone else or the factory.........and breaking some open 0.000
records at speeds slower than classes much smaller in other sanctioning
bodies.......and proclaiming in public events.......internet etc how
they "kicked butt" at Bonneville............ /quote]

Joe-- I know how you feel but I think you're missing the point. I came out to the BUB trials last year as a spectator and got excited about the event. As a pilot you go fast but you have no sensation of speed. I said to myself-- maybe I can come here next year and attempt a record. But I had a problem, I didn't own a bike. I needed a goal so my Bonneville friend say 200 mph is a good goal. Now I could buy a Busa and fix it up but I don't know anything about motorcycle engines. In April of this year my friend called me and said there's a new bike called the ZX-14 and it might do 200. I took a look at it and bought it. I looked at the books and saw that there were a lot of records in the 1350 cc class but Kawasaki gave it 2 more cc.'s which knocked it into the next class. That wasn't my fault. I looked in the record books and saw that there were hardly any AMA records in the 1650 cc class. That wasn't my fault either. In the FIM book I only needed to go over 145 mph to break that record. Once again that wasn't my fault. Should I have given the bike back to the dealer because I couldn't run in the 1350 cc class where all the records were clearly established?? I don't think you would have either.

I'm sure when the Busa came out nine years ago there were a lot of new records set in the 1350 cc class and I'm sure a new, more powerful motorcycle will come out in the next five to seven years which will break even more records.

The point is someone has to be the first to establish a record and I take no shame in that. I'm only going to be on this Earth a short amount of time and I'm going to go for it all. And I'm encourage all people to try and take my records away from me next year. That's what make LSR so exciting. You get power, speed, lasting friendships and excitement.... all on a limited budget. You sure can't do that at the Reno Air races. I know you guys are the heart and soul of Bonneville but BUB had over 150 bikes, up 30% from the year before and I would love to see this sport grow even larger. Didn't Speedweek have a record turn out? Believe it or not... that comes from new people. And maybe with more people, money for purses will become commonplace. Please don't dump on the new person just because he set a open record on a factory bike. It's called being in the right place at the right time.

[JackD]

The participants that were all zeroed out at the wishes of the promoter just keep coming to mind.
I would tend to ask them how they feel.
The BMW is a fine bike but the advertising of it's record was just one of many distasteful things that have been done in the name of revenue.
More is not better if better got there first and then only beat by the publication.  

WANNA  BUY  A  SHIRT ?

[Bob Beatty]

Flyboy,
First off ? welcome to land speed racing.  Your interest, energy and enthusiasm for the sport is appreciated and applauded.  The negatives that have been expressed are not meant to be directed at you personally ? you just happened to innocently open that particular can of worms.
Your records are certainly something for you to be proud of and you were wise to pick classes to run that you could be competitive in.  In the past, SCTA set minimums in each class that did not have an existing record.  This was done to make any record that was set truly representative of that class.  Some of us think that was a better system for the credibility of the sport.  
You talk about money for purses being something for LSR to work toward.  Dry lakes racing has shunned the idea of purses of any kind since it?s inception.  When you bring money into the picture you will soon see the fun go out of it.  It becomes a business ? look at professional drag racing as an example.  We are really the last bastion of amateur motor sport that competes at a professional level.  I think most of us want to keep it that way.  The BUB meets have very little in common with traditional dry lakes racing.  They are a great venue but not the direction in which dry lakes and Bonneville racing has chosen to go.
I am sorry you felt we were dumping on you.  As I said, you just happen to be then one that opened a discussion that has nothing to do with you personally.  These issues run deeper that many would imagine.
It appears you live in the same neck of the woods as I do.  I would be happy to help you with your LSR effort any way I can.  I certainly don?t have all the answers but I often know who to ask.

[Glen]

Bob
Right on, good answers.

[joea]

flyboy........we all, myself included have given you props
for going out and pursuing speed............

most of us, myself included......have offerered to help
you in any way we can...........

my short speech earlier.........that you can relate to.........was
as indicated..... geared toward those who proclaim to the world
that they "kicked butt" at Bonneville.........when history......
proves otherwise and puts it into perspective...........a perspective
that shouldnt be ignored.............

remember who was all over another internet site..........proclaiming
that SCTA/BNI records are to be taken with a grain of salt, and suspect....
compared to the BUB speeds............

Joe

[bbb]

when I make it to the salt next year, I will have the same feeling that Anthony Hopkins made me feel while watching the WFI movie earleir this year. I will recall the people, the vehicles, the information exchanges. IF all goes well and I make the number I hope to run, it wont be for a record. it wont be for braggin rights. it wont be recorded for posterity. it will be for the people who made my trip there possible. it will be for my family. for my sponsors.

jack and I have had lengthy philosophical discussions via email. I have saved them all. I am proud to call jack my friend.

[Flyboy]

Bob,

Good point about the money. I will associate it with amateur golf... one of the last true sports left.

[1212FBGS]

Flyboy
Golf......SPORT!........ :  golf,  bowling, darts are an activity you do when you drink!!!! ok I guess you could call it a drinkin sport.  
kr

[jimmy six]

To give you the longevity of a well built race car. Chauvins 1974 roadster is still being campaigned and setting records as the Frudigers. The well built vehicles stay forever...................