Future stewardship of the BSF

[Vinsky]

Read the bio on Sally, Secretary of Dept of Interior, which includes the BLM. Sounds like she likes to protect public lands. Must be a contradiction in it somewhere.
https://www.doi.gov/sally-jewell

[Stainless1]

although it didn't naturally thin for the thousands of years before mining.

That's actually not true.  Geological record shows that he salt use to be hundreds of feet deep.  So, it has been thinning for thousands of years.  Now, if that rate has accelerated since mining began, I couldn't tell you.

Poly... please direct us to those geological records.... I can see by the shoreline marks the water was hundreds of feet deep in Lake Bonneville but I have never seen anything showing or claiming a salt crust of hundreds of feet. 

[ggl205]

although it didn't naturally thin for the thousands of years before mining.

That's actually not true.  Geological record shows that he salt use to be hundreds of feet deep.  So, it has been thinning for thousands of years.  Now, if that rate has accelerated since mining began, I couldn't tell you.

So, where did the salt go over those thousands of years?

[Polyhead]

although it didn't naturally thin for the thousands of years before mining.

That's actually not true.  Geological record shows that he salt use to be hundreds of feet deep.  So, it has been thinning for thousands of years.  Now, if that rate has accelerated since mining began, I couldn't tell you.

Poly... please direct us to those geological records.... I can see by the shoreline marks the water was hundreds of feet deep in Lake Bonneville but I have never seen anything showing or claiming a salt crust of hundreds of feet. 

read it in a book when I was in high school.  Can't recall which one.  The lake depth at peak was somewhere in the naiborhood of 1000ft.  I read a lot of geology books as a kid.

[ggl205]

"read it in a book when I was in high school.  Can't recall which one.  The lake depth at peak was somewhere in the naiborhood of 1000ft.  I read a lot of geology books as a kid."

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats/Bonneville_Salt_Flats_History.html

Poly, the BLM site states that at one point, the water level at Lake Bonneville was 1000 feet deep. Could that be what you were thinking of?

John

[ATS, Inc]

I have been asking this for years, but nobody has ever, answered me. I believe that before the United States Army Air Corp started flying the most secret and valuable aircraft in the world from the Wendover Air Base in preparation for the Atomic bombing of Japan, they verified how thick the Bonneville Salt Flats were. They knew exactly where or where not the pilots flying those B-29 Superfortress could land in an emergency! It would have taken a survey crew a couple weeks to drill and document the thickness of the flats. Where are those records? It ain't "Top Secret" anymore, or is it?

[Polyhead]

"read it in a book when I was in high school.  Can't recall which one.  The lake depth at peak was somewhere in the naiborhood of 1000ft.  I read a lot of geology books as a kid."

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats/Bonneville_Salt_Flats_History.html

Poly, the BLM site states that at one point, the water level at Lake Bonneville was 1000 feet deep. Could that be what you were thinking of?

John

Not at all.  I clearly recall that the salt crust had slowly erroded over the thousands of years since it's creation.  It makes sense really.  Nothing on the surface of this planet is permanent, everything erodes.

[Sumner]

....everything erodes....

Everything that erodes is also redeposited some place else  .  

I've also never read anyplace about the salt depth being anywhere near that thickness but like the others have said Lake Bonneville was that deep before it overflowed into what is now the Snake and cut a huge gorge out and emptied out a lot of that depth in a very short period of time.

In Salt Lake City as I look eastward, I see on the western side of the Wasatch Mountains an ancient wave-eroded bench 800 feet higher than the city. That widespread bench was formed by erosion at 5,050 feet above sea level. It marks the old shoreline ("bathtub ring") of ancient Lake Bonneville, the largest Ice Age lake to form within the Great Basin. This old lake was comparable in volume to Lake Michigan, and occupied almost 20,000 square miles in eastern Nevada, western Utah, and southern Idaho. The surface of Lake Bonneville was about one third of the area of Utah. This massive lake attained a maximum depth of 1,000 feet and was 800 feet deep over Salt Lake City. It

http://www.icr.org/article/red-rock-pass-spillway-bonneville-flood/

Sumner

[crawford]

The locals don't want the mining industry to go away... and I believe they will be there till the end of their current lease or until there is no longer any salt or potash to extract and sell. 
The BLM does not seem to want to hold the mining organization responsible for destruction, in fact the BLM believes that all that salt that has left in rail cars over the last 50 years or so came from the brine aquifer.  They think the salt is just naturally thinning the last 50 years although it didn't naturally thin for the thousands of years before mining.
Sure weather the last 2 years was a big factor, but was it such a big factor because the salt layer was too thin to handle it.  I recall having major storms come through and nobody broke through the crust, the salt dried quickly and a day or so later we were back to racing.

So who should manage the flats... that is quite the question with no easy answer.  Utah was allowing strip mining before they turned it over to the Feds.... Why exactly did they do that... was the money playing out... who knows.  The Feds just continued the game.  There was a lot of salt on the flats in the late 70s, there is a lot less now.  A lot of it is sitting in the ponds across the street. 
I hope the BLM feels the pressure and forces restoration of the flats... it would be nice if it happens in my lifetime
I guess I now have to vote...

The locals don't want the mining industry to go away? Hmmm you must have a vast knowlege of the people who live here.

[Polyhead]

....everything erodes....

Everything that erodes is also redeposited some place else  .  

I've also never read anyplace about the salt depth being anywhere near that thickness but like the others have said Lake Bonneville was that deep before it overflowed into what is now the Snake and cut a huge gorge out and emptied out a lot of that depth in a very short period of time.

In Salt Lake City as I look eastward, I see on the western side of the Wasatch Mountains an ancient wave-eroded bench 800 feet higher than the city. That widespread bench was formed by erosion at 5,050 feet above sea level. It marks the old shoreline ("bathtub ring") of ancient Lake Bonneville, the largest Ice Age lake to form within the Great Basin. This old lake was comparable in volume to Lake Michigan, and occupied almost 20,000 square miles in eastern Nevada, western Utah, and southern Idaho. The surface of Lake Bonneville was about one third of the area of Utah. This massive lake attained a maximum depth of 1,000 feet and was 800 feet deep over Salt Lake City. It

http://www.icr.org/article/red-rock-pass-spillway-bonneville-flood/

Sumner

A link to a creationist website... well, I can discredit anything you have to say from here on out.

[Milwaukee Midget]

The locals don't want the mining industry to go away? Hmmm you must have a vast knowlege of the people who live here.

 

Mayor Crawford, I defer to you on this one. 

Is there a consensus on the part of Wendoverians toward the operation?

I dare say we assumed a bias toward a large employer on the part of locals.

[Sumner]

....everything erodes....

Everything that erodes is also redeposited some place else  .  

I've also never read anyplace about the salt depth being anywhere near that thickness but like the others have said Lake Bonneville was that deep before it overflowed into what is now the Snake and cut a huge gorge out and emptied out a lot of that depth in a very short period of time.

In Salt Lake City as I look eastward, I see on the western side of the Wasatch Mountains an ancient wave-eroded bench 800 feet higher than the city. That widespread bench was formed by erosion at 5,050 feet above sea level. It marks the old shoreline ("bathtub ring") of ancient Lake Bonneville, the largest Ice Age lake to form within the Great Basin. This old lake was comparable in volume to Lake Michigan, and occupied almost 20,000 square miles in eastern Nevada, western Utah, and southern Idaho. The surface of Lake Bonneville was about one third of the area of Utah. This massive lake attained a maximum depth of 1,000 feet and was 800 feet deep over Salt Lake City. It

http://www.icr.org/article/red-rock-pass-spillway-bonneville-flood/

Sumner

A link to a creationist website... well, I can discredit anything you have to say from here on out.

Well I'm not a 'creationist' but the info about the Bonneville Lake does match up with most the geomorphology I've read about the lake.  As for the discrediting believe me my feelings won't be hurt in this instance,

Sumner

[Polyhead]

....everything erodes....

Everything that erodes is also redeposited some place else  .  

I've also never read anyplace about the salt depth being anywhere near that thickness but like the others have said Lake Bonneville was that deep before it overflowed into what is now the Snake and cut a huge gorge out and emptied out a lot of that depth in a very short period of time.

In Salt Lake City as I look eastward, I see on the western side of the Wasatch Mountains an ancient wave-eroded bench 800 feet higher than the city. That widespread bench was formed by erosion at 5,050 feet above sea level. It marks the old shoreline ("bathtub ring") of ancient Lake Bonneville, the largest Ice Age lake to form within the Great Basin. This old lake was comparable in volume to Lake Michigan, and occupied almost 20,000 square miles in eastern Nevada, western Utah, and southern Idaho. The surface of Lake Bonneville was about one third of the area of Utah. This massive lake attained a maximum depth of 1,000 feet and was 800 feet deep over Salt Lake City. It

http://www.icr.org/article/red-rock-pass-spillway-bonneville-flood/

Sumner

A link to a creationist website... well, I can discredit anything you have to say from here on out.

Well I'm not a 'creationist' but the info about the Bonneville Lake does match up with most the geomorphology I've read about the lake.  As for the discrediting believe me my feelings won't be hurt in this instance,

Sumner

I just can't trust anything creationists have to say.  but you are't one so I retract that statement.  The track record of them flat out lying is just puts them beyond trust.  They may  not be in this case, but i'm not willing to put any time into anything they have to say trying to work it out.

As for what happened to the salt when it erroded.  It's salt.  It can be dissolved readily in water once it's broken up into small peices.  I would suspect it's washed away.  At this point though, there is too much man made interference to test any conditions currently existing to know one way or another.  But, salt flats SLOWLY shrinking is the norm.  This is seen in africa's great salt flats.  However, to think that we aren't increasing the rate would be totally foolish.

  Part of me wonders, which is cheaper, trying to keep the salt there, or letting it go.  Say ALL of the salt disapears in 20 years, there is NOTHING left.  Could we then pave a 10 mile long by 1/4 mile wide road and race on that?  What would that cost?  Would it be cheaper than trying to save the salt?  Then again I guess the BLM would never allow such a construction project... but then again, once all the salt is gone does the BLM has any point being involved?  With nothing left to conserve, why would they?

I'm hoping we just find a new spot to run all together.  Maybe get the millitary to come up off of one it's many dry lake beds.  The salt flats just see unsavable to me.  It's the old profits vs. people thing again and profits always always always win.  The only way this will ever get turned in to the benefit of the racers is if the racers went out and bought up all the mining rights.  Become the mine operators and then you get to say what gets done with the "tailings."

I would be nice if one single mine has ever been a good steward of the land, but it's never happened in all of man kinds history.  They get the profits, and then we get to spend tax money cleaning up the mess in every single case.  It's going to be no different here.  Can;t wait for my tax dollars to help start the next mine somewhere, so it can make a mess, and then spend more tax dollars cleaning up that mess after it's gone "bankrupt"

[jl222]

....everything erodes....

Everything that erodes is also redeposited some place else  .  

I've also never read anyplace about the salt depth being anywhere near that thickness but like the others have said Lake Bonneville was that deep before it overflowed into what is now the Snake and cut a huge gorge out and emptied out a lot of that depth in a very short period of time.

In Salt Lake City as I look eastward, I see on the western side of the Wasatch Mountains an ancient wave-eroded bench 800 feet higher than the city. That widespread bench was formed by erosion at 5,050 feet above sea level. It marks the old shoreline ("bathtub ring") of ancient Lake Bonneville, the largest Ice Age lake to form within the Great Basin. This old lake was comparable in volume to Lake Michigan, and occupied almost 20,000 square miles in eastern Nevada, western Utah, and southern Idaho. The surface of Lake Bonneville was about one third of the area of Utah. This massive lake attained a maximum depth of 1,000 feet and was 800 feet deep over Salt Lake City. It

http://www.icr.org/article/red-rock-pass-spillway-bonneville-flood/

Sumner

A link to a creationist website... well, I can discredit anything you have to say from here on out.

Well I'm not a 'creationist' but the info about the Bonneville Lake does match up with most the geomorphology I've read about the lake.  As for the discrediting believe me my feelings won't be hurt in this instance,

Sumner

  Well it pisses me off that a newbe wanabe  like polymouth could discredit you after all the informative post you have contributed.

         JL222

    

[Sumner]

.....I just can't trust anything creationists have to say.  but you are't one so I retract that statement.  The track record of them flat out lying is just puts them beyond trust.  They may  not be in this case, but i'm not willing to put any time into anything they have to say trying to work it out.....

I might not be a creationist but I respect their right to have their views.  I thought that was one of the great things about this country.  The fellow who wrote that article is in my view a very credible geologist on the subject at hand.  I see no difference in his interpretation of the history of Lake Bonneville than those of other geologists.

Hopefully you are never hurt on the salt but if that were the case and the ambulance was hauling you into SLC you might want to keep your views to yourself while receiving medical attention there.  Living in Utah I've always found those giving medical help to not be effected by what my views might be vs. theirs and the services they have rendered have left nothing to be desired on my part


Sumner

P.S. John thanks, but don't put any time into being P.O., I'm not