Belly Tank Build Diary

[wobblywalrus]

The last set of an American brand bearings I got were made in China so I returned them, too.  This is a good link to non-China bearings.   Instead of a tapered roller bearing in the rear hub I used a JAF double row ball bearing.  It had adequate load capacity and less internal friction than a tapered roller bearing.

https://www.bearingslimited.com/catalogs/

[ronnieroadster]

When I need any bearings knowing most are now off shore junk to find good old USA produced bearings I do my shopping on Ebay. There I have found many sellers listing old stock USA production bearings Timken brand and many others as an example. Anything purchased from Speedway for the most part will be china stuff that includes the spindles, hubs and brake parts as examples buyer beware.
 Ronnieroadster

[bearingburner]

For spindles I would buy used stock Ford and have them Magnafluxed

[Rex Schimmer]

Mike,
 I am with Jimmy Six, angular contact ball bearings have a lot less drag and if you are selective there are a number of good (not chicom) bearing mfgs that you can get bearings from. Two approaches that I have seen, one is a pair of angular contact bearing mounted in a back to back configuration with both outer races constrained and then an internal spacer between the inter races that is the correct length to set the bearing preload. The other is use a double row angular contact brg which has a common inter and outer race with two rows of balls. This can make for an easier installation. Obviously you have to do some engineering and machining to make everything fit but it does reduce the rolling resistance. I also suggest removing the seal as it is a big drag contributor. I make a shield that replaces the seal that has 3-5 thou clearance around the spindle and then seal it with a light grease. I have seen cars that only run light oil for lub also I happen to use a 10,000 rpm milling spindle grease that I lightly cover the bearings with. Expensive but good.

Rex

[Stan Back]

Just for kicks, how many horsepower does it take to spin, on a well-maintained stock set-up with no brakes, for example, a 22" diameter 3.5" tire on a 15" wheel to 200MPH?

A wild-ass guess counts . . .

[jimmy six]

Rex, I don?t run seals either for over 40 years. I also use Special GE grease for ball bearings that I got through work; I still have some in a tube.

Jim the answer to your question is I can start a wheel/tire spinning and come in for dinner and it?s still spinning when I?m done. The other is in my class there still changing me. I?ll take speed anyway I can.

The transmission I bought for my sons circle track car has ceramic bearings....same reason...

[Mike Brown]

I did find Timken bearings that were made in the USA.  There is a noticeable difference (improvement) in the surface finish of both the bearings and the races over the Chinese counterparts.  The lowest cost was from Zoro.com.  Zoro is owned by WW Grainger.  We use them a lot at work, the same part, same part number, same warehouse shipped from but a much lower cost.  When searching using the individual bearing and race part numbers turned out to be significantly higher cost.  I found that by determining the correct "set" I could buy the bearing and race for the same price as the bearing.  My combination turned out to be SET2 for the outer bearing and race and SET13 for the inner bearing and race. 

The consensus seems to be light lube or oil with no seals to drag.  I can easily machine a press in bearing shield to replace my seals. 

My last scheduled day of work is December 31st as I am retiring. 

[desotoman]

Just for kicks, how many horsepower does it take to spin, on a well-maintained stock set-up with no brakes, for example, a 22" diameter 3.5" tire on a 15" wheel to 200MPH?

Stan,

I would like to know that also. Reward vs. time, cost, etc. involved.

Tom G.

[johnneilson]

Not applicable to wheel bearings, but some experience with Ceramic ball bearings.
In kart racing some years ago, mainly EU ICA and ICC spec motors we had availability to ceramic hybrid bearings for cranks and transmissions. In the ICC motors, we turned them 14,500 revs and there was no difference on the dyno. Now, some drivers claimed the acceleration was better, but in blind testing, no difference. The ICA motors turned 19,000 revs. Still no difference on dyno outside of normal tolerances of said testing device.

One difference I did see though was the full compliment bearings did not like rapid rpm changes, such as in shifting gears.
When subjected to that, the inner races just destroyed themselves. Never had a catastrophic disaster but you could find the evidence on the sparkplug electrode and the top of the piston when it was time to change.

At the time I worked for Saint-Gobain and we had a ceramic bearings division. When I submitted the failed bearings to tech support the only answer was "this appears to not be a good application of this technology".

Merry Christmas to you all, John

[Rex Schimmer]

Mike,
Congratulations on retirement!!! Now you have full time to work on your car! I retired 10 years ago and can tell you that I was so happy that I am, as most of us are, a "car guy" which means that we can be busy as much as we want working on our love and hobby. So much better than golf.

Enjoy!!!

Rex

[bearingburner]

I retired early. Plant Manager thought 50hr every week for 30 hrs pay was just coasting to
retirement so I quit. Best thing is the phone hasn't rung at 2AM since. Came home and started building a lakester the next week.

[wobblywalrus]

A few years ago I was going to install some ceramic bearings in the race bike.  There was a lot of information favoring their use from folks that were making money from selling them exclusively or as a prominent product line.  So, in the quest for an less biased or more honest opinion, I asked for advice some tech advisers at reputable bearing companies that sold mainly ferrous and a limited amount of non-ferrous bearings.

These are some of the things I was told.  First, manufacturing precision in conventional ferrous bearings is a big deal and it helps to lower friction in typical uses more than the use of exotic materials.  Second, bearings in an oil or grease bath will have a lubricant film between the bearing elements, so exotic materials do not offer big friction reduction benefits.  Third, ferrous wear and failure debris can be removed by magnets such as on drain plugs.  This is an advantage.  Last, exotic materials may offer benefits if there is an electrical current passing through the bearing that is pitting the ferrous elements, the bearings are in a corrosive environment like brine, or they operate at very high rpm, in heat, or with no lubrication.  There was other things they said that I do not remember.

A motorcycle wheel hub might be one of the better places to use them.  The only lube would be a light film of grease on the ferrous parts to keep them from rusting.  Lubrication friction would be minimized.  This change would cost $$ so I needed some unbiased third party engineering information about friction drag in that application for both lubed ferrous and unlubed ceramic bearings.  I could not find any, so I stayed with ferrous bearings.     

 

[ggl205]

WW, other than ultra high speed CNC spindle bearings that do successfully use ceramic bearings, my only other experience is with bicycles. Like you, I was skeptical about benefits over ferrous bearings so I proceeded to test them. My test rig was an electric motorized bicycle crank and bottom bracket shell that I could easily swap out bearings. A watt meter and hand held speedo were employed to compare watt outputs between ferrous and ceramic bearings. Constants were crank RPM and MPH. Watts were recorded at various RPM and MPH to see if there were greater (or lesser) power efficiencies.

Short answer was yes, ceramic bearings did produce greater power efficiencies over ferrous metal. I don?t recall how much more efficient ceramic bearings were but in bicycle track competition, any advantage is welcome.

One caveat, ceramic bearing installation is more critical than ferrous. They damage easily if installed incorrectly.

John

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I'm not versed in bearings, but know that Rick Yacoucci must be.  His front wheels on the car are those little aluminum discs that turn at 14k rpm at 350.  As I remember he said that he used a proprietary lube supplied by the mfr. of the bearings.  Sorry - don't remember the brand of the bearings.

Many years ago Van Butler gave me a grounding in wheel bearings for bikes.  Cathy was running small bikes at the time and Van knew that everything needed to be best-possible, so he put in ceramic bearings and set up everything right.  With the bike on a front stand he gave the front wheel a bit of a spin, and sure enough, it took dang near forever to stop.

Ramble complete for now.

[Stan Back]

. . . the reason I asked (mainly that I didn't know the answer) was that in my experience running a mechanical-injected engine in Street Roadster classes, it seemed to my ancient mind that getting the "tune" right with changing temperatures, air density, wind, etc. made little changes result in big changes if you weren't right on top of it.

I've never tried it, but I'm only guessing, that an 1/2-HP electric motor could turn said wheel to pretty high speeds -- and we were usually only able to hit the spot once in a while.